The spell is breaking......daughters finally waking up?

[BoredofthisCrap7]

I have slowly and gently been countering the trans ideology that my two teenage girls have been exposed to at school and social media.
One has always been very gender critical and we have been discussing things in the news like men in women's sports, the many (many) kids identifying as "trans" in her year at school, her own registration teacher (whose child is a trans male to female) basically indoctrinating her group on trans "rights", the law in Scotland where we live etc.

My oldest girls however, was VERY much TWAW, be kind, the whole hog. She has a gay BF and I think she was confusing the issues in her mind. We have had a lot of VERY tense conversations but I hoped she would come to her own conclusions in time.
Yesterday we had a breakthrough.
We were discussing (again) women's sports and the rugby issue, the golfing/snooker issue in the news. She finally admitted that biology is important in sport, that she thinks there should be categories for trans athletes (I will work on this!) and EVEN wondered OUT LOUD that bathrooms and sex segregated spaces should include third spaces for trans people.

It was a massive admission for her.
I did then explain to her that what she just said would get her "cancelled" as a terf, that these solutions have ALL been suggested and that they are never good enough for the TRAs, that they want #no debate, unquestioning acceptance that TWAW, across the board access to women's spaces etc.

She said....."it's not fair Mum is it?".

I could cry.

I think the spell is breaking.

Have you broke through with any TWAW children or relatives?

I've tried to have the conversation once and it ended in DD crying. Very much in the Be kind frame of mind. I'm hoping that sports will help (she plays and can see the difference between the female and male teams) but I haven't tackled it head on again since.

My teen DD is quietly gender critical. She’s always been massively sporty, so I think the issue was forced for her in terms of making up her mind when she started seeing men winning in womens elite sporting categories. She’s luckily formed a friendship group with other sporty, take no shit girls none of whom seem to have bought into the trans ideology. They still take all the non binary identity stuff more seriously than I do, but I’m quietly confident they’ll grow out of that.

Autistic teen DS is a breath of fresh air on this issue. He is very low key and doesn’t rock the boat socially, which I’m glad of as he is quite vulnerable and has enough battles to fight already, but he is massively eye rolly about all of it. Trans ideology, gender identity, all the stupid pronouns etc. He recently said to me very deadpan over breakfast while scrolling Twitter on his phone ‘So, Mum, apparently men are having periods now, did you know?’ and we shared a massive eye roll together.

Absolutely right, because women must never fight for themselves. It's so unfeminine. Good to see someone still respects the old traditions, when there's so much change all around us.

Thanks for posting, Fupoff. You've reminded this old feminist of the 1970s, when our leftie comrades earnestly assured us that women's issues would be dealt with as soon as we'd established workers' control of the means of production. But for the present, tackling women's issues was a capitalist ploy to take our minds off the true struggle. Our campaigns were 'diversionary'.

Fast forward 50 years and we're told we can't even talk about women's issues or have single-sex meetings. Now our campaigns are 'bigoted'. It feels like being lectured by exactly the same posturing middle-class wankers as in the 1970s. Must be their grandchildren!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

You're clearly worried about far more important issues than women's rights, @Fupoffyagrasshole. Perhaps best you don't waste your time on this feminist forum...

I love how angry you all are @PrawnofthePatriarchy these threads are all hilarious 😆

Wonder if the fervent online trans activists ever get told this? That they should focus on some other more important fight? It's probably more likely that this happens to women and women's issues.

Well, it takes all sorts I guess, but one person in this thread has bizarrely chosen 'lazy zings to parents' as their life's single cause.
And they're not even very good at it

I'm currently fundraising for 2 different causes while I wait for my tea to cook...

I love how angry you all are @PrawnofthePatriarchy these threads are all hilarious

You don't sound awfully concerned that "the future is looking super bleak", fup. Do better.

A very smart, caring and inclusive daughter you have. She sounds like a credit to the whole LGBT community.

I was actually betting with myself how long it would take you or one of your pals to say almost EXACTLY this.

Do try harder.

Brainwashing and indoctrination, and regurgitating verbatim nonsense from a website is not the same as coming to conclusions via free thinking, research and considered thought.

Children shouldn't be treated as your robot propaganda, which is what a lot of people seem to want.

Yeah, I can’t see anyone else smiling in here

The credit for the comedy is all yours, don't be so modest.

Well done you! My little one has started school this week and one of my questions for the teacher was around how this is managed. I'm determined my child will not be indoctrinated.

Yep, me too!

Particularly as my DD6's best friend's mum, supposedly a feminist, is very much "An Ally", and is very much the sort to be already teaching her DD that TWAW, so imagine I will be facing this sooner rather than later 😬

My DDs have previously taken the eye roll leave the room approach. But DD1, university student, recently told me that she is GC and has been trying to work out who among her acquaintances at university are GC too, so that she can talk about it to them without being "cancelled". I think that this will be a good influence on DD2.
OP, do you feel that the situation in Scotland is made more complicated by the new Hate Crimes Bill?

@puffyisgood

I was really wondering about your second photograph. The player who styles their hair in the fashion of a middle aged man with male pattern male baldness syndrome ( fabulous that hair styles can be Unisex and gender non conforming and shows real progress in society in challenging female sterotypes about the stigma of female baldnes ... well done that rugby player )

Any details ?

Just they hairstyle looks very similar to the Italiian now based in Ireland ( who openly posts on Social Media about their interests of niche sex practices ) who plays on for a LBGTQ+ inclusive GAA team in a girls/female league, and gave an interview that they starting playing GAA after they became upset about restrictions in Rugby on female changing rooms being prioritised for people of the female sex.

Would it be one and the same ?

Here’s hoping, very fervently.

Well done! I did the same.

Absolutely made more difficult by living in the shit show that Scotland has become, yes.

One of my daughters is writing an English argumentative essay for her Nat 5 just now, she (the GC one) wanted to write about women's rights and trans ideology. I have steered her away from it, because you never know who will end up marking your paper and what might come of it, or even if a (brainwashed) biased marker will ensure you are penalized somehow.
It's an absolute nightmare.

I think the tide is turning and am hopeful it will actually be better for all. At the moment everything around the issue is so toxic that the vulnerable people at the centre cannot access the support and the care they need, and of course women have been treated appallingly. Here's to the future.

Three years ago my teenage dd (now 16) had flags on her bedroom wall, shut down even the most gentle of questions, considered herself non binary, or maybe he / him, hated the awful transphobia spouted by JK (though couldn't actually tell me what she had said).

Today she complains about the gender-neutral bathrooms at school and says that people seem to have confused sex with gender. She is still a staunch supporter of gender expression and respecting pronouns (I'm not really, though I'll be polite about it if you are) but she also believes that women have sex-based rights for a reason, and that a bunch of men deciding that their voices are the most important ones seems like a load of the same old bollocks.

We're both keeping a close eye on little sister who is about to be launched into the 'gender woo years'.

I was @Fupoffyagrasshole not so long ago. Didn’t get it - felt very much “live and let live” about the whole issue.

What swayed me was not people piling on with the insults but people patiently explaining the issues. I would strongly suggest that when someone like that joins a thread like this, we all resist the urge to become contemptuous but instead try to open up the conversation. Often it will be futile but occasionally someone like me will start to see the issues and will firmly end up on the side of TWATW. I know it’s a fraught issue on all sides but throwing insults gets us nowhere.

For what it’s worth, the issue that started to introduce doubt about TWAW for me was the chemical castration etc of children who later change their minds, and the fact that the messages that are spread in schools are entirely experimental and are causing genuine harm to children who are misinterpreting their normal teenage feelings as gender dysphoria. Also prisons and sport. I think those are the easiest and most concrete arguments to start with - more abstract concepts such as rights are harder for people to understand because on the surface of it, it seems kind and woke to have a “live and let live” attitude and because the abstract issues are by their nature harder to connect with.

Trying to work out who is of the same opinion .... it's like Nazi Germany and other totalitarian eras in history .... afraid of the knock on the door in the middle of the night from the secret police to disapear you to a re-education camp.

It's an outrage

Yes. DD22 got it straight away and is a card carrying terf. Her two older brothers were more TWAW but I refused to give an inch or be cowed by their be-kind BS. They're now pretty terfy themselves.