How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

[JellySaurus]

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

The town carnival wasn't a highly political event at which anyone who failed to disagree with TWAW was in danger of being hurt.

I've always supported the police but I have to say the blinkered and dogmatic responses by people who say they are/ were police officers on this thread have seriously undermined my respect.

"There's an agenda". Is there? Policing has been subject to more questioning from the public. The report into Daniel Morgan found the Met to be institutionally corrupt. The response to that charge? Deflect, deny, anything but engage with it.

This isn't recent. It's years and years being unpicked as the Morgan case shows. There's been Hillsborough, "Plebgate", shootings of young men by the police, deaths in custody, numerous super complaints, inspection reports finding they don't record crime properly, and child protection is wanting. The list goes on and on. Like Rotherham, many of these problems are from when there was no austerity. There was money in the public sector. Plenty of it. It took years to find out what was going on.

It's poor leadership and a failure to engage with even the mildest of criticism from those leaders. The public is seeing this and isn't happy. As we police by consent, it seems urgent that the police leaders start to engage with the concerns of the public.

pattihews
So what was the initial complaint that was reported & investigated at that event?
To allow us to understand the actions of the police, you have to give a fuller version of what happened - not just look at the response on its own.

You can't arrest someone for 'disagreement' - there must have been some other issue that was raised.

If mistakes were made - then fine, I won't back up police that have stepped outside the line, but i can't make a judgement on half a story.

ResisterRex
there are all sorts of issues and mistakes throughout the police. Its not a perfect world and the cases in which we deal with are never easy and can be unpicked at a later date.

If i get a secure conviction on someone - that person and their family complain. If we decide that there is insufficient evidence to proceed on that person, the victim and their family complain.

But at present we have a resourcing issue from these 'lessons learned' scenarios. Which is the reason we can't get to jobs.

Crime recording is a good one. Recently CCTV pick up a suspect trying car door handles. A witness says that they have being doing all the cars on the road (but in reality that's probably no true - not every car). We use to do an area search and try and find the suspect, one crime report of attempt theft for the car the CCTV picked him up trying. (obviously if no other cars had any attempts made)

Now, with a witness sating that they have tried 'every car on the road' you will need to put in about 50+ individual crimes reports which will need every owner of each car contacting to say that a crime of attempt theft is being recorded on your car.

Bureaucracy gone made - or police recording crime properly?

Either way, it takes resources off the streets

This has been all over twitter today. An 81 year old man arrested because he came out of his house "brandishing a wooden implement" (his walking stick). He ended up covered in bruises.

Look how many officers there are at the scene!

twitter.com/bedspolice/status/1566044315922694145?t=RHgFX3LiJvfLelNX-0AYlw&s=19

Why have the Police decided to say 'attempt' theft or 'attempt' murder these days @Felix125 ? Surely it is attempted theft or murder as per the legislation? It sounds so grammatically incorrect and stupid.

People are sentenced for the crime of attempted murder not attempt murder, it makes no sense - he attempted to murder the person, he attempted to steal the car.

So an officer was attacked and received facial injuries

Was he quite an old 80 year old or quite a fit & healthy one - as i know quite a few who could probably run rings around most people for fitness and strength.

When the officer was attacked - did her emergency button activate - hence the number of officers who arrived? I counted 6 officers, one crew was the transport van. The shift will have about 25 cops on it probably, so the vast majority couldn't attend.

Was he quite an old 80 year old or quite a fit & healthy one - as i know quite a few who could probably run rings around most people for fitness and strength.

He's got alzeimers and has had 3 heart attacks so I doubt it.

It doesn't look like you read the full twitter thread? The officer called for backup BEFORE the altercation. Then an officer tried to take his stick from him:

Two uniformed officers responding to reports of a disturbance in Potton at around 5am on Friday initially approached the wrong address by mistake.

As they walked away from the property, they were approached in the street by a resident holding a wooden implement.

1/6

The two officers at the scene called for back-up and several other units attended for support.

All these officers were in full uniform and in marked police vehicles.

2/6

Before further units arrived, an altercation ensued where one of our officers tried to take the wooden implement from the resident, during which she sustained a cut to her face.

A man in his 80s was arrested on suspicion of assault on an emergency worker.

3/6

He was taken into custody for a brief period and has since been released under investigation, while we assess the evidence.

4/6

Detective Chief Superintendent Julie Henderson from Bedfordshire Police said: “We understand the concerns regarding this incident and are carrying out our own internal review.

“We have also voluntarily referred ourselves to the Independent Office for Police Conduct...

5/6

(cont.)... for full openness and transparency and to ascertain if there is any learning to be taken forward.

“Over the coming days the welfare of all those involved will be our primary concern.”

6/6

And herein is the problem you @Felix125 make excuses for everything, what ifs, and what abouts. In what fucking world does it take the amount of police officers who attended that incident? Are Police these days so fucking weak and ineffectual? You are armed with tasers and God only knows what else, years ago Police managed with nothing more than a fucking wooden baton and often had to do so on their bloody own.

Frankly if the Police are not as fit as an 81 year old man you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Mind you I have noted that a majority of the Police these days couldn't run for a bus let alone after a criminal, they look overweight and out of shape - never mind Police looking younger these days they look overweight, unfit and more often than not scruffy and grubby.

I note the contrast with the Police I have dealings with in another country - not a rich country either - the Police there command respect yet are still approachable, including the ones who are the 'elite' Police and heavily armed all the time. The make-up of their Police is very different, different levels, different allocation of duties yet ALL of them look fit, and smart, their uniforms are pristine, they are respected, they manage to work with and among the communities without having to dick about dancing at Pride parades to do so.

I'm sorry to have dragged this thread off topic somewhat. I was just so shocked by the heavy-handed approach here. Are officers not trained to de-escalate situations? It was obviously a scared and confused old man they were dealing with. Even I know that the last thing they ahiuld have done was try to get the "wooden implement" off him!

I've got to step in and just say this .
Ok - 2 scenarios that happened to me .

1. cop who should never have been a cop arrested an elderly gent , was far too heavy handed, got the sack . Rightly so . Not just for that but other incidents too . I don't condone use of force that's unnecessary. Ok ?

Scenario 2 ) we get called to an old peoples home. They have a fairly new resident in his 80s . He has dementia. He is ex paras, very fit and very strong . He took a walking frame to another female residents head , causing massive injury. He then went on to assault and injure several nursing staff .

When we got there we literally had to put him on the floor , and use limb restraints because he was a proper handful and it took about 5 of us I think to detain him . He ended up in rampton secure mental hospital because he was so dangerous.

It doesn't matter how old someone is if they're offering violence . You can't expect police or nurses to simply suck it up if someone is over a certain age ?

I've dealt with mental health issues where the person is clearly unwell but if they come at me with a weapon I aren't just gonna stand there and get injured . I have a family too . I want to go home at the end of my shift. I've been to a mental health unit where a patient bit the thumb off a nurse . Do we just write that off? Say it's ok because they were ill ir do we restrain them until they're calm?

What would you do ?

@Felix125
I get where you're coming from. It's difficult yo get your head around doing things differently to how you're doing them now and let go of a way of doing things that's worked for you in the past. I fought it too. I had to receive an instruction. And it was so much better. I was drowning in work and I didn't have anyone else to pick up my other jobs so they just stacked up. Or I didn't do my paperwork. Neither were good outcomes.

We have to put DVPN's in place (Domestic Violence Protection Notice). These can take all day to sort out as you have to amass all their domestic history, redact it all etc etc.

And this is all down to the attending officers to do - there is no one to simply hand this on to. So one incident has wiped the officers out for the day - may be longer.

It seems to me that you're happier just to do all this yourself rather than letting a trained administrative staff to put together complaints from the system, type up the history, redact etc. It seems inefficient to have trained officers sat around in offices but if it works for you to have a whole shift dedicated to one case that isn't even going to court, there's no point discussing it. 🙂

Must say, anyone who's dealt with someone with Alzheimer's will know there can be a violent stage. Also don't think the police should be called to this (the homes should have staff able to deal with it but they don't) but can well see how that happens.

It doesn't matter how old someone is if they're offering violence . You can't expect police or nurses to simply suck it up if someone is over a certain age ?

I've dealt with mental health issues where the person is clearly unwell but if they come at me with a weapon I aren't just gonna stand there and get injured . I have a family too . I want to go home at the end of my shift. I've been to a mental health unit where a patient bit the thumb off a nurse . Do we just write that off? Say it's ok because they were ill ir do we restrain them until they're calm?

No-one is saying you just suck it up ffs.

It's called community policing. Would they be called in question if they were interacting with, for example, Jubilee celebrators?

vestifabsurdity

Genuinely then - What are you saying ?

Have you ever confronted anyone who is trying to hit you with anything?

How would you have handled this differently if a man was hitting you in the face with a stick ? I'm not being obtuse - I am genuinely interested in what you would do -

Our first tactic is comms . No one wants to fight with an old man . But if talking doesn't work and said man starts to hit you with a large stick - what should we do ?

And as for your claim that police are overweight and couldn't run for a bus -
We have every year now a fitness test. If you don't pass it - you can be sacked .
The test is the same for men and women , from ages 18 - 60 .

As I've got older , I've found it harder to pass as I have athritis in my knees and ankles - but if I don't pass it - I'd get sacked or be not be operational.
So . I think you are very biased , unwilling to listen , unwilling to accept any other point of view but yours . Isn't that what you and other posters said about police ? Mmmmm.

Glad to hear they do have fitness tests but honestly the police I see suggest the standards are low, is it a set standard across all police forces?

Sorry, but I don't believe the old man in the Bedfordshire incident made any attempt to hit the policewoman, I don't believe she made any attempt to talk to him either, she was at the wrong address - so there you have it my confidence and faith in the police is so low that I believe she is lying. Tragedy is that in past times I would have definitely believed her, so what does that tell you? I'm probably what would be classed as a natural supporter of the police, if my opinion of them has sunk this low then don't you think there is a problem that urgently needs addressing and fixing? It's not going to be fixed by the police being defensive, making excuses and not listening.

Public patience is wearing thin and that does concern me.

The test is standardised across all 44 forces and yeah maybe when your an 20 year old it's easy - not so easy for me at 50 with athritis.

Why is it so difficult to believe the woman officer WAS hit in the face sustaining facial injuries by the stick ? You can't make this stuff up - there has to be evidence so if he was arrested for assault an emergency worker - he assaulted an emergency worker . He hit her in the face with a walking stick .
Do you think she should have just done nothing ? If she asked for back up it's because she was struggling with the man - his age isn't relevant.

If you were walked up to in the street by a man of 81 with dementia who subsequently hit you in the face with a walking stick - would you just shrug it off and forget it ? People with dementia can be violent and unpredictable. What if they'd left it and he's started hitting random members of the public ? Kids ? More women ?

There are always goi g to be people who are anti police and nothing I can say , explain, reason , that will change your mind .
You're stuck in that mindset, so there is little I can do to try to further explain.
Engagement is pointless.
So I'll just keep doing my job , and if someone twats me in the face with a stick yes I'd be detaining them . Either for hospital, or custody for assessment .

As an aside - one of our sgts went to assist paramedics in august when two were assaulted and a window in ambulance broken . Mental health patient .
Arrested . Court releases on bail .
Following day murdered a man in cold blood , in full public view , .
He literally caved the man's face in , with a series of different weapons . Paramedics couldn't even try to work in him - pronounced dead at scene . Murderer reckons he has mental health issues . Psychiatrist who assessed in custody said it's caused by psycho active drug taking . So drug induced psychosis. Should we let him off ? I mean if he's mentally not well ?

Or should we be protecting the public from a dangerous murderer whatever his reason for killing ?

It's the same principle.

Perhaps the visually funniest thing I’ve ever seen is a young lad somehow manage to escape from the back of a police van. He was down the road and through an alley in a flash. He must’ve covered 100m in 12 seconds in his jeans.

by the time the two corpulent fuckers driving the van had undone their seat belts and clambered from the van, he was literally out of sight. They made a token wheezy amble down the hill and gave up. The contrast was incredible.

whatever the fitness requirement is nowadays. It’s a very low bar.

Oh and if weee derailing the thread let's even things up a bit shall we .

Someone will undoubtedly say taser was police brutality .

I've been assaulted twice . It's not fun . Especially in the seconds you think "shit . What will they tell my kids ? "
I'll say again . Starting salary is around 19k

Clearly have to be bonkers to do this job .

And I've seen that body cam unedited. It doesn't show in this clip him crawling on hands and knees with blood pooling around him .

whatever the fitness requirement is nowadays. It’s a very low bar.

You think ? I'll tell you now - I'm 50 - I aren't ever gonna catch a 19 year old drug dealer in a race .

Should I be sacked ? Because I'm bloody good at dealing with sexual offences and domestic violence, child abuse , people with special needs , teen tear aways , my skill set is more valuable than being able to sprint really fast .