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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

1000 replies

JellySaurus · 31/08/2022 11:48

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?
OP posts:
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14
stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 01:25

SongAtTwiighlight · 03/09/2022 01:13

I have a question:

if police are sent to investigate mild criticisms/ridicule of trans on social media (see Harry, police check on his thinking). Then why aren't police sent to investigate truly vicious threats of rape and death on women?

If a complaint is made they would be sent out to investigate it . 🤷🏻‍♀️. What makes you think that wouldn't be investigated?

SongAtTwiighlight · 03/09/2022 02:00

All the women who are routinely threatened on social media with violence, sexual violence, and death threats - yet, crickets. No response at all from our police forces.

But there is a sticker on a lamp post about women's rights? And the woman is detained for hours, her house is searched, and she is found to be in possession of books of a feminist nature? How much police time did that take, eh? For what?

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 02:04

SongAtTwiighlight · 03/09/2022 02:00

All the women who are routinely threatened on social media with violence, sexual violence, and death threats - yet, crickets. No response at all from our police forces.

But there is a sticker on a lamp post about women's rights? And the woman is detained for hours, her house is searched, and she is found to be in possession of books of a feminist nature? How much police time did that take, eh? For what?

I really have no knowledge of this case - if someone is threatened on social media in the way you describe it would constitute a malicious communications at the very least . However- if it's on social media the suspect could be anywhere in the world - unless they are in the uk and can be identified it would be very difficult to secure a conviction. The uk police have no jurisdiction outside the uk .

As for the case you're talking about with the woman with feminist literature- no idea - but on the face of it - no crime ? What was the sticker ? That's kind of key . If it said kill every man you see - yeah fair do - if it said something else- ? What did the sticker say ?

SongAtTwiighlight · 03/09/2022 02:16

A significant section of our police forces are politicised against women; whether by traditional misogyny ("just a domestic, she deserved that slap from him", "she was only a little tart/whore," etc); or the new and progressive version (wrote something online that TRAs objected to, coppers call round for a chat telling her not to. And they ignore the masses of rape and death threats towards women.). Coppers really could use that time dealing with real criminals, instead of policing people's political thoughts, and trying to intimidate women with opinions that the police have been trained by Stonewall to regard as criminal.

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 02:19

SongAtTwiighlight · 03/09/2022 02:16

A significant section of our police forces are politicised against women; whether by traditional misogyny ("just a domestic, she deserved that slap from him", "she was only a little tart/whore," etc); or the new and progressive version (wrote something online that TRAs objected to, coppers call round for a chat telling her not to. And they ignore the masses of rape and death threats towards women.). Coppers really could use that time dealing with real criminals, instead of policing people's political thoughts, and trying to intimidate women with opinions that the police have been trained by Stonewall to regard as criminal.

You are quite simply incorrect.

What factual
Basis do you have for that view ? Force policies now dictate domestic abuse is a priority. No one I have ever ever ever worked with had the view you are saying here . Where the hell is your evidence for that ?

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 02:21

Actually a significant section of our police force is made
Up of women !!! And a fair percentage of those women have experienced domestic abuse !

Our own superintendent has gone public with her story of being strangled to unconsciousnesses.

Please do show me your evidence for that ridiculous statement.

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 02:34

Fwiw .
I'm a woman and a police officer.
You want to know what drives me ?

It's the abuse I suffered at the hands of my stepfather from the age of 7 to when I left home at 16 . Absolute sadistic, physical, sexual , neglectful abuse on every single level you can imagine.

I think somehow I wanted to save kids from that same fate .

And I did . And I did it well . The hysterical absolute rubbish peddled by people like you is what does more damage - you think it's true so it must be ?
I really really want to see the solid concrete evidence for such a statement. Not hearsay . Not rumour. Actual evidence that any police officer has ever said oh she's a tart, deserved a slap . Show me . Because my gos if you can show me any police officer with that view - I'll fucking hunt them down myself .

MangyInseam · 03/09/2022 02:38

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 02:04

I really have no knowledge of this case - if someone is threatened on social media in the way you describe it would constitute a malicious communications at the very least . However- if it's on social media the suspect could be anywhere in the world - unless they are in the uk and can be identified it would be very difficult to secure a conviction. The uk police have no jurisdiction outside the uk .

As for the case you're talking about with the woman with feminist literature- no idea - but on the face of it - no crime ? What was the sticker ? That's kind of key . If it said kill every man you see - yeah fair do - if it said something else- ? What did the sticker say ?

But this is the exact kind of thing that is making people upset, and what the people on the thread are talking about.

You keep taking what people are saying as some kind of personal insult, while you don't seem to have any actual knowledge of what is happening that is pissing people off, so you dismiss it.

MangyInseam · 03/09/2022 02:40

And no, there was no threat on the stickers.

You can listen to recordings of the woman being interviewed by the police, it was crazy.

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 02:44

How can you listen to the recordings ? That's classified as- where are these recordings?

I'm not dismissing anyone - read my previous posts - but this thread and the content of it is simply not my reality as a police officer. I can't pretend otherwise just to make lots of women happy- because it just isn't my experience. No rainbow lanyard, no rainbow cars , no stonewall training, domestics in my force are a priority, I've never arrested anyone for wrong think , and I never will - so I just cannot relate to this report at all .

Hyacinth2 · 03/09/2022 06:40

I see this going the way of GPs - not enough of them, more demands and higher expectations.
This makes the job worse - so existing ones retire early, move sideways, move abroad.

NecessaryScene · 03/09/2022 07:25

I can't pretend otherwise just to make lots of women happy- because it just isn't my experience.

FWIW, as someone on the other side of this debate, I've not seen any of this stuff in real life either.

But that doesn't mean it isn't happening - it clearly is, over and over and over again. And when it does happen, those responsible or making statements seem to not fully even understand what they've done wrong, which is the most concerning thing. This shows it is not a "few isolated incidents" or "a few bad apples". It is systemic, in the truest sense.

I've no experience of men in female prison, or men in female rape crisis centres or being arrested for ribbons, or whatever. (Or even of being a woman.)

But it doesn't mean I can't empathise with the women it is happening to.

If anything, your experience shows that it IS possible to run a "normal" police service, so how about you tracking down training the police who are acting like idiots? Want to take over the College of Policing?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/09/2022 08:48

The sticker said "trans ideology erases women", @stillvicarinatutu

There is a long thread about it here including links to the recordings.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/09/2022 08:53

Here's a transcript done from part of the recording by @ScreamingMeMe

BELLA DOE: You’re told you’re transphobic if you don’t… If you’re a lesbian and you don’t include trans women.

PCSO: Why would you not include trans women?
BD: Um. Because they’re men.
PCSO: No they’re not.
BD: But they can’t… They can’t change… Then you’d have to…

PCSO: Okay, where you are in your thinkings is very much needed a lot of enlightenment and reading. I find that very offensive and I’d like you to take it off.

BD: But why do you find it offensive?

PCSO: Because you’re trying to tell people in the real world… Not inside your house. Outside. That trans people don’t exist. That it’s an idea. It’s ideology. And that’s it’s being harmful for women, which it isn’t. And it’s not a point of view, that’s fact.

PCSO: So I think that is quite damaging because what you’re doing is trying to give other people the idea of what you believe. Which, I think, you need to do a lot more reading on. Personally.

PCSO: And now because somebody’s spoken to you about it you’re going to keep it there because you feel that that’s your right to do so.
BD: No. I want to… No. It’s been… It’s faded, it’s been there for so… It’s been there. You’re. This. So now I’m… I have… I cannot express.

PCSO: You can express your views in your own world. This is not inside your world, is it? Anybody that comes to your door is going to see that.
BD: I don’t… Why… I thought… I said I’d keep myself to myself. This is ridiculous.
PCSO: It’s really upset you?
BD: Yes it has. So…

PCSO: But you don’t think about the fact that-
BD: I do. I think about…
PCSO: it upsets all the trans people to say that they’re erasing women. Which it simply isn’t true.

(Continues)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/09/2022 09:08

Oh sorry, I realise I have confused one targeting of feminists for their stickers by a different police force with another.

The other woman is Jenni Swayne. She is a woman in S Wales with significant disabilities who was arrested for feminist stickering during the day and released by police at 3am and left to make her own way home on her mobility scooter.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4528167-Charges-against-Jennifer-Swayne-sticker-woman-dropped

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10446037/amp/Disabled-campaigner-womens-rights-arrested-hate-crime.html

They searched her house and took away a book, freely available on Amazon:

'Yesterday Sunday 23rd/01/22 I was arrested for hate crime. Gwent police saw me as an exceptional threat to the T community by posting stickers and posters that did not mention T once. They were feminist in content and, I felt, pleasingly informative to women and concerned.'
Swayne, who suffers from bipolar disorder, went on to argue that the police's decision to confiscate a book concerning transgendering children amounted to policing thoughts over actions.

'When my house was raided, it has come to my attention that a BOOK was taken by the police. A book edited by Heather Brunskell-Evans on GC children. It was crammed with my notes. MY THINKING IS BEING INVESTIGATED- not things, not materials, not actions my actual thinking.'
The book, 'Transgender Children and Young People: Born in Your Own Body', is a collection of essays critiquing the theory and practice of transgendering children, edited by Dr Heather Brunskell-Evans.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 03/09/2022 09:27

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 02:44

How can you listen to the recordings ? That's classified as- where are these recordings?

I'm not dismissing anyone - read my previous posts - but this thread and the content of it is simply not my reality as a police officer. I can't pretend otherwise just to make lots of women happy- because it just isn't my experience. No rainbow lanyard, no rainbow cars , no stonewall training, domestics in my force are a priority, I've never arrested anyone for wrong think , and I never will - so I just cannot relate to this report at all .

Please listen

no one is saying this is you…they aren’t saying this stuff about my brother either who is a great officer. Ive never come into contact with a ‘bad’ officer either (to be fair its been mostly us reporting crimes….I absolutely appreciate that I’ve been lucky with my dealings with the police)

they are saying it about the police force as a whole….you may not have worked with police officers like that and im sure its the same with my brother but there has just been a court case where officers were whatsapping vile stuff

i know this thread is hitting you hard and that you are struggling with the job that you used to love but honestly having police officers on these threads with actual experience can be invaluable

💐

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 03/09/2022 09:29

Oh wait

i should clarify that i mean the police as an organisation not police officers as a whole

its the same as saying men as a class or white people as a class….still hurts to hear sometimes

pattihews · 03/09/2022 10:15

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 01:25

If a complaint is made they would be sent out to investigate it . 🤷🏻‍♀️. What makes you think that wouldn't be investigated?

We know it doesn't happen because several of us here will have reported threats to the police and had nothing happen/ been told to go away and stop bothering them. But when a man complains that the image of a small bunch of ribbons tied to a fence terrifies him because he thinks it represents a noose, the police have descended on the woman who left them there and persecuted her for months, with court appearances scheduled and delayed, before finally dropping the case. And that's just one example. The fact that anyone else's hurt feelings on line can be reported and listened to, but misogyny is not an offence here in the UK should tell you something.

stillvicarinatutu · 03/09/2022 12:47

Wow .

Ok . That pcso is wrong . Where did the recording come from ? As an aside - PCSO is a civilian employee and not a warranted police officer.

As a police officer I think other police officers would have handled that very differently

The arrest , house search and seizure of a book is whack a doodle . For me - I'd listen to the complaint, deduce has there been an actual criminal offence - yes or no .
In this instance is a no . Explain that to complainant. Close job .

One thing - ok - I've had a complainant say their being harassed- so I've looked at the job , spoken to complainant, deduced it does not fit the legal definition of harassment, told them so and closed the incident.

I then had a complaint but in about me for doing so . Now it was not upheld - but people think if they don't get what they want , all you have to do is complain and hey presto! We'll change our mind .

Well I don't . If there's no crime there's no crime . However it is an uncomfortable feeling when that email drops on you from police complaints and discipline saying you are now being investigated because mr angry didn't get what he wanted .

In the case of the lady arrested, she probably has legitimate grounds to complain. I hope she has - unless there is a lot more to this than meets the eye .... and often there is . But if this is as you are telling me- she should complain.

Felix125 · 03/09/2022 13:11

That's what I initially thought about the people being arrested for 'stickering'

What was she arrested for?

If they have searched her house, presumably the offence was more that just a summary only offence?

Who made the original complaint and was this 'sticker' just the tip of the iceberg.

I once arrested someone for wishing his ex-partner 'all the best' on social media. He later went on Facebook etc to complain "...I can't believe they have arrested me for simply wishing someone all the best..."

He failed to mention the years of stalking & harassment he had subjected his ex-partner to and that he had breached a restraining order by sending the message. And to me it was obvious he was doing it to tell his ex 'I'm still here - you haven't got rid of me' and he was doing it to drive her into the floor.

But on the face of it - it looks like I arrested him for sending someone a greeting.

Hyacinth2 · 03/09/2022 13:13

he fact that anyone else's hurt feelings on line can be reported and listened to, but misogyny is not an offence here in the UK should tell you something.

What requires prosecution is decided by Gov not police - take it up with your MP.

pattihews · 03/09/2022 13:38

I'm not dismissing anyone - read my previous posts - but this thread and the content of it is simply not my reality as a police officer. I can't pretend otherwise just to make lots of women happy

You've dismissed women constantly. You've told them they're wrong. You've not heard of a single incident that most of us here know about in some depth and have not wanted to find out more. Every piece of evidence you deny. If all you can do is tell us we're wrong (in your limited and uninformed personal experience), why are you so persistent? We get where you're coming from. This Never Happens. We're very familiar with the This Never Happens argument.

Felix125 · 03/09/2022 13:56

MarshaMelrose
Paperwork - This is one of those things that appears to work in principle, but not in practice.

For me to write up the details and hand it over will still be time consuming - i may as well just complete the file as the admin staff will just copy and paste what i have rote over. The statements can't be done via dicta-phone - witness & victim statements have to be read and singed by the people at the scene.

If the admin staff have not been to the scene or met any of the victims or witnesses - how can they identify people & scenes on CCTV?

And its not bad time management - it's something that has to be done. Places send CCTV in which is multiplexed and not in any order and usually and hour either side of the offence. So i have to go through it to pick out what we need to prove the offence. Once we have that, we need to edit it so a plays in a format that is 'legible' - so it shows the offence clearly. And then you need to go through it again to take out all the sensitive info - but only i will know what that information is as the OIC.

We do have a prisoner handling team - so for example if i arrest a person for a shop theft, they will take over the case & interview the suspect. I will still need to get the statements from the store, my statement, crime it and obtain the CCTV. If its a straightforward guilty plea - they would put the rest of the case file together - but if its not guilty, it comes back to us to complete the case file for CPS. And the reason is because there is too much stuff to go on the case file that only the officer in the case can answer - especially if it bounces back from CPS.

And this is only case files

Admin staff won't be able to help with risk assessments taken at the scenes or missing from homes, sudden deaths, mental health cases etc etc. All of which have paperwork.

We have two officers currently pregnant on our shift, so they are taken off front line duties - they often deal with crimes being made at the front desk or interviews etc. They can help with all the paperwork associated with phone down loads and some back ground checks for missing from homes etc - but even they are limited to what they can do to help us with paperwork - and they are experienced officers who know their way around case files.

SongAtTwiighlight
We do go to the urgent crime jobs. Things like rapes and murders are a priority, domestic incidents are high up as well.

Everything has to be graded with respect to threat, harm & risk. For example - a domestic disturbance where the suspect is still on scene will overtake one where the suspect is no longer on scene. A violent domestic will trump a detained shoplifter - where the shoplifter is complainant and sat in the managers office not causing any issues.

Anything that's below that will go onto an event queue, where you will get the next available officer. Might take a few days, as often incoming jobs jostle the queue around. So the incident where your garden shed has been broken into sometime in the last two weeks but nothing was taken - might drop further down the queue.

We would like to go to all of them straight away, but we don't have the resources.

The 'stickering' incident you refereed to - I don't know the details of it - but is it part of a bigger incident? What was the original crime that was reported & recorded for an arrest to be made? Was this a priority job or was this a job that had dropped onto the event queue and was dealt with after there were no immediate threat, harm or risk type jobs?

if you look at my post above - a female has phoned the police as her ex-partner has wished her 'all the best' on social media, that's the way the job had come in to us. But once you investigate further, its a much more sinister detail. Now, I went around and arrested him straight away and got him sent to court - but he could easily come on here and moan that the police have arrested him for simply passing on a nice message to his ex.

anniegun · 03/09/2022 14:01

There is an agenda to blame the police for rising crime and a horrendously low detection and prosecution rate. In reality resources have been cut, whilst the police have had to step in where other services have been cut (mental health and social care). Then we have asked them to become much more pro-active in areas like DV and sexual exploitation. And of course crimes such as online fraud have exploded. The police have always participated in community events. I dont see being at a pride event as any different to them being at the town carnival which I distinctly remember when I was a child in the 70s

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