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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What rights don't transpeople have?

775 replies

CrossStichQueen · 29/08/2022 08:46

It's a question I have seen asked many times and it is rarely answered. When it is its usually a list of things that are not "rights" or a list of rights/demands not held by anyone else.

It appears Katie M has provided a list of Countries with each trans right they don't provide. KM has also provided source links however many just link to a chart with dots indicating the "trans right" that country doesn't have. No explanation as to why.
For example:

Albania - No legal name change at all.

Quick look and it turns out in Albania nobody can legally change their name. Anyone can socially change their name and change it on their passport and driving licence but nobody can change their BC. So this is not a right others have and trans are denied as implied by KM it is in fact the same rule for all.

While Albania like many countries is behind on LGB support/rights it appears that the lack of rights transpeople do not have are the same rights those who are LGB are also denied yet it seems only the fact that transpeople don't have them is what matters.

The list for each country is very much the same for those countries that share a geographical location/religion/culture and so the sources linked appear to be the same dot chart I mentioned earlier.

The UK list is interesting.

No legal gender recognition without mental health diagnosis. This only applies to changing your BC and the person must have medical support to state they have/had gender dysphoria. Nobody else in the UK has the right to change their BC

No legal gender recognition without spousal consent. This is so that spouses are not forced to be in a now same sex marriage without their consent once the transperson has changed their BC. Transpeople appear to want to remove the consent of others in a legally binding contract which marriage is

No legal ban on conversion therapy. The Conversion therapy ban in the UK is made up of 3 existing Acts. Sexual offences Act 2003. Criminal justice Act 1988 and the offences against person Act 1861. This covers all physical acts and medication abuse used in order to "convert a person's sexual orientation or gender identity". What the trans movement want is affectively counselling of transpeople banned. This means no transperson could seek therapy if they have feelings of GD or confusion around their gender. That is not a right.

No legal parenthood recognition. Any male or female who parents a child has the right to be legally recognised as either their mother or father dependingon the persons sex. Legally in the UK if you are the biological or adoptive parent you are legally recognised as mother if female and father if male. That right applies to all including transpeople.

No legal right to religious marriage. In the UK no religious organisation can be compelled to marry same sex couples so this is a right LGB people do not have also so why does it only matter for transpeople?

No practical access to trans healthcare. This is just a lie. Transpeople have the same access to healthcare as anyone else in the UK. What the source linked discusses is that some transpeople when polled stated they felt prejudice from some healthcare professionals which "put them off" seeking healthcare. While this prejudice is wrong it is sadly experienced by many different people due to their culture/racce/religion/sexual orientation. Transpeople have the same RIGHT to access healthcare un the UK as anyone else

I havent gone through the whole list but looking at certain countries the rights trans people claim not to have are either the same for all trans or not, women do not have those rights either or those in the LGB community also do not have those rights. It seems to me that the trans Community do not want equal rights or rights for women or those in the wider LGB community they just want trans rights (most of which are not rights) for transpeople only and screw everyone else.

OP posts:
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TheKeatingFive · 01/09/2022 08:34

It's misogynistic and quite frankly terrifying.

It is certainly eye opening as to how little women and particularly the vulnerable women we are talking about here are viewed by society.

sanluca · 01/09/2022 08:34

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 08:12

Saying that there’s absolutely no commonality between women and trans women (as upthread) is just illlogical. Of course there is

So why are you refusing to tell us what it is?

That is really interesting. So what does a adult human female biologically have in common with certain adult human males that they don't have in common with other adult human males?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 01/09/2022 08:39

We're going round in circles. YOU are using the term "TW" so that is already a set to you - you have created that set yourself - you're using it as a group so you already know what it means. You've already drawn the distinction between TW and "other men" as you did in a previous post, and a further poster said you hadn't and it was just two groups of men. However you phrase it, YOU have created the distinction between "TW" and "other men", and it has been used multiple times in this thread

i use transwomen…partly out of politeness and on mumsnet because using the correct words gets you deleted….i know that trying knows this 😉

and i know it winds some of the FWR regulars right up and they are generally too nice to say this to my face (they do say it though….just not in a telling rufus off kinda way)

even though i know it winds them up ive continued to use it so now i feel i have to apologise profusely to those posters…and i do, im honestly really sorry

if id have realised that some [redacted] [redacted] poster like trying was [redacted] enough to twist it into some sort of [redacted] fucking gotcha them I wouldn’t have done it

so moving forward i will never ever use the words transwomen or transwoman on here ever again

and again apologies that it took a [redacted] [redacted] poster like trying to force me into it

💐

Whatsnewpussyhat · 01/09/2022 08:40

So the options are;

Redefine the sex class of 4 billion women, (who will still be oppressed by men due to their sex but we won't be allowed to point that out anymore or have any rights or legal protections based on it)

Or

Hurt some men's feelings.

Yeah, seems equal and proportionate 🤔

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 01/09/2022 08:58

I don't know, but I don't think they should have a load of people saying they're awful people when they're just trying to live their life.

///

Hi Trying Smile** a very apt username I must say.

My issue with this is that actually I don't think anyone here is calling trans people awful for being trans but rather challenging and quite rightly criticising their actions and behaviour when seeking to access female spaces in life despite so many women and girls saying robustly but politely No.

I'd like to see the energy, time and money spent trampling on the rights and boundaries of women and girls by these people instead focused on addressing why trans people feel unsafe in their sex designated spaces and/or campaigning for third spaces.

As a woman, mum, daughter and feminist that's action I would enthusiastically pitch in to help.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 01/09/2022 09:01

Meant to say that I'm pleased to see you contributing (mostly) in a polite fashion and not flouncing off whilst shrieking "transphobia " at the merest "hang on a sec ...".

However you need to see, especially as a gay man surely, that there comes a point when you can't admonish women any more for discussing matters which will affect their safety in away you'll never understand?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 09:15

The cats can argue they have nothing in common forever, but there is. They both like scratching posts.

This is actually my point, not yours. I made a similar analogy about cats and dogs first at 0.15 which you are "hepeating". What you failed to clarify is that "cat" has a biological meaning, which is distinct from "dog". They are different mammalian species. So however much a dog imitates what he sees as the behaviour of a cat or a human to fit in, he doesn't make the grade.

What do men who identify as women have in common with actual women? Do they both like scratching posts? Or do they have absolutely zero in common other than being a biological sex class with a definition and a group of the opposite sex class who, with no frame of reference, claim that they better fit into the one they don't qualify as? Because that's not a definition, it's a circular assertion.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 09:19

I want to know what the scratching post equivalent is that women and trans women both like/ do/ have and which other men do not.

Would be really helpful if you could just spell it out trying.

Just so we don't get another re-hash of failed attempts:

  1. It's not identifying as a woman. Most women don't.
  2. It's not believing themselves to be adult human female because if adult human female can reasonably be believed to have nothing to do with biology, most women don't believe they are adult human females.

Come on now, don't accuse us of refusing to accept a commonality whilst refusing to share your insights.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 09:21

if id have realised that some [redacted] [redacted] poster like trying was [redacted] enough to twist it into some sort of [redacted] fucking gotcha them I wouldn’t have done it

so moving forward i will never ever use the words transwomen or transwoman on here ever again

and again apologies that it took a [redacted] [redacted] poster like trying to force me into it

Great, Rufus Flowers it is difficult because certain factual terms will get deleted here. But it's so freeing not to call these male people "women". It's saying "enough is enough" of the gaslighting.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 09:24

whilst refusing to share your insights.

I'm not sure this poster has any beyond going round in circular nonsense and neglecting to acknowledge points others have made.

TheKeatingFive · 01/09/2022 09:27

Still waiting for the 'scratching post' example.

I'm here all day 😄

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 09:29

To be fair, trying might be at work. I am going to keep checking though as I would really like to know this.

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 09:42

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 09:47

• Transwomen (people born as female who are trans)

Yes, as I said, people who are born as female (and never can change sex, because it isn't possible) and identify as men would be better known as "trans women".

Beowulfa · 01/09/2022 09:49

If every woman on the planet signed a declaration stating "I no longer believe I am a woman", would would transwomen be identifying with?

Also, if I sign this bit of paper, does it mean I won't have to bother with the menopause?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 09:49

I'm sure no one here has a problem with:

Women: adult people of the sex that can produce ova, including trans women, a group of the sex that can produce ova who identify more with the sex that can produce sperm.

As a meaningful group, who need specific medicine and have other shared needs.

AlisonDonut · 01/09/2022 09:52

"Other Men" (people born as male who are not trans)

Transmen (people born as male who are trans)

Women (people born as female who are not trans)

Transwomen (people born as female who are trans)

This is why words are important. All this time, Trying thinks that trans women are female. Whereas we know they are male.

As in, males who say they are women.

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 09:55

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Trying20 · 01/09/2022 09:58

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ArabellaScott · 01/09/2022 09:58

Good lord, are you still talking about cats and dogs, Trying?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 10:01

I've been clear about this from the beginning.

You haven't been clear about anything from the beginning. It's been one long merry go round of meaningless, circular nonsense.

ArabellaScott · 01/09/2022 10:02

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 10:01

I've been clear about this from the beginning.

You haven't been clear about anything from the beginning. It's been one long merry go round of meaningless, circular nonsense.

100%. Merrily sprinkled with insults and smears.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 10:03

Clothes horses and horses are a meaningful group that both have "horse" in their name.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 10:04

If my daughter asks me to get her a horse, would she be ok if I pop to Argos and get her a clothes horse, or is that not likely to meet her needs? It would be great, they fold up, no food or stabling bills, less dangerous.

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 10:06

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