What rights don't transpeople have?

[CrossStichQueen]

It's a question I have seen asked many times and it is rarely answered. When it is its usually a list of things that are not "rights" or a list of rights/demands not held by anyone else.

It appears Katie M has provided a list of Countries with each trans right they don't provide. KM has also provided source links however many just link to a chart with dots indicating the "trans right" that country doesn't have. No explanation as to why.
For example:

Albania - No legal name change at all.

Quick look and it turns out in Albania nobody can legally change their name. Anyone can socially change their name and change it on their passport and driving licence but nobody can change their BC. So this is not a right others have and trans are denied as implied by KM it is in fact the same rule for all.

While Albania like many countries is behind on LGB support/rights it appears that the lack of rights transpeople do not have are the same rights those who are LGB are also denied yet it seems only the fact that transpeople don't have them is what matters.

The list for each country is very much the same for those countries that share a geographical location/religion/culture and so the sources linked appear to be the same dot chart I mentioned earlier.

The UK list is interesting.

No legal gender recognition without mental health diagnosis. This only applies to changing your BC and the person must have medical support to state they have/had gender dysphoria. Nobody else in the UK has the right to change their BC

No legal gender recognition without spousal consent. This is so that spouses are not forced to be in a now same sex marriage without their consent once the transperson has changed their BC. Transpeople appear to want to remove the consent of others in a legally binding contract which marriage is

No legal ban on conversion therapy. The Conversion therapy ban in the UK is made up of 3 existing Acts. Sexual offences Act 2003. Criminal justice Act 1988 and the offences against person Act 1861. This covers all physical acts and medication abuse used in order to "convert a person's sexual orientation or gender identity". What the trans movement want is affectively counselling of transpeople banned. This means no transperson could seek therapy if they have feelings of GD or confusion around their gender. That is not a right.

No legal parenthood recognition. Any male or female who parents a child has the right to be legally recognised as either their mother or father dependingon the persons sex. Legally in the UK if you are the biological or adoptive parent you are legally recognised as mother if female and father if male. That right applies to all including transpeople.

No legal right to religious marriage. In the UK no religious organisation can be compelled to marry same sex couples so this is a right LGB people do not have also so why does it only matter for transpeople?

No practical access to trans healthcare. This is just a lie. Transpeople have the same access to healthcare as anyone else in the UK. What the source linked discusses is that some transpeople when polled stated they felt prejudice from some healthcare professionals which "put them off" seeking healthcare. While this prejudice is wrong it is sadly experienced by many different people due to their culture/racce/religion/sexual orientation. Transpeople have the same RIGHT to access healthcare un the UK as anyone else

I havent gone through the whole list but looking at certain countries the rights trans people claim not to have are either the same for all trans or not, women do not have those rights either or those in the LGB community also do not have those rights. It seems to me that the trans Community do not want equal rights or rights for women or those in the wider LGB community they just want trans rights (most of which are not rights) for transpeople only and screw everyone else.

What's the issue with accepting there might be some similarities between women and transwomen?

What are they? I am a woman, an adult human female, and I don't see any similarities, other than that these adult human male people make unsupported claims I think are false?

I will never not be amazed at the audacity of men who think it’s perfectly fine to explain to biological women what a woman is 😆😆 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Think we've got there?

Yes, I've already got there before you, dear.

I’d love to see what would happen on a gay male forum if a bunch of straight women tootled over and started explaining to them what gay meant

Ok, @Trying20

So if I accept that there is "commonality" between women and TW - they want to be considered female, I am one, where does this actually get us?

I cannot see a single tangible thing that I have in common with most TW other than this nebulous supposed commonality. Maybe that some men might be violent to both of us? True of gay men.

But as someone who isn't particularly feminine and who really only experiences "woman" as a result of her sex characteristics (I have periods, I breastfed my kids, I have birth, I was pregnant, I have had a pregnancy scare), there's not a lot I have to or want to offer TW as "woman" - happy to use pronouns and pretend they are just like me in the work kitchen, but where does this get them? I don't really want to share intimate spaces with them (particularly if they have a penis) and I don't think they should complete in female sports (particularly if they have been through male puberty). I prefer sport to shopping, I don't love traditionally feminine pursuits. I only really wear "women's" clothes because it is easier to blend in - it really isn't an identity for me and I'm not really interested in making this a theme of my life.

I don't think many TW would be very happy with being told that they are women but only in terms of what is in their head and not shared spaces, if that is your whole argument. But that isn't your whole argument, because you want people to accept this nebulous commonality and to use that to grind us down into letting TW into more and more of our spaces.

My post, which clearly was cross posted just before yours:

If my daughter asks me to get her a horse, would she be ok if I pop to Argos and get her a clothes horse, or is that not likely to meet her needs? It would be great, they fold up, no food or stabling bills, less dangerous.

So it isn't a meaningful category is it. It's a group including two things, one is an actual horse, and one is a clothes hanger which has "horse" in the name.

Trying, why can you just not accept women saying no?
Why is it up to women to accept men in our category rather than those men accepting that they don't?

Your attempts at trying to create a group that contains women and transwomen (men) are not going to work. Your 'logic' is anything but logical.

There is NOTHING that all women have in common with all transwomen but not other men.

Our language and choice of words we use to describe some men has, and still is, heavily policed by TRA's who would like us to be banned or shut down for speaking freely about female rights.

I’d love to see what would happen on a gay male forum if a bunch of straight women tootled over and started explaining to them what gay meant

Quite.

@Trying20 I think its offensive to say I am a women because I don't identify as a man.

I don't identify as anything. I am just me.

I didn't identify into female puberty, I didn't identify into having children. I didn't identify into my female body (if I did I would have picked a tall and slim one). I won't identify into menopause. I didn't identify into being at risk of male violence (and I am personally blessed I have not experienced it) because of the body I was born in.

I could go on and on.

These are the things I have in common with the woman on these boards and every other woman (including transmen). It may be that many of our experiences are different but there is always some commonality. We don't have that with the opposite sex. (Yes I know there is male on male violence).

And also@Trying20

If the question is actual commonality, then really I as a woman overlap far more with the average TM than the average TW in practice, so in practice shouldn't I be grouped with them?

I'm just emphasising the point that there is a commonality between transwomen and biological women.

But there isn't. Males claiming to be women don't have any commonality with women. For me, I don't believe in gender identity ideology so female people who identify as men are as much women as I am. Not part of the "men set". And vice versa. So your set doesn't work.

Cross posted similar morescrummy, will be interested to see the response.

I will never not be amazed at the audacity of men who think it’s perfectly fine to explain to biological women what a woman is

Indeed.

The manipulative appeals to female socialisation, the male socialisation and the attempts to forced team are also quite something.

As we are on FWR, this is good, by the brilliant Dr Em:

uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/

If the dogs were going round assaulting, raping and murdering cats then yes, I'd give them seperate fucking scratching posts.

Honestly, the gall of MEN who campaign for other MEN to have access to women and girls never ceases to amaze me.

Your "points", such as they are, have been responded to and dismissed many times over. Maybe read the whole thread again.

there is absolutely no overlap because they have absolutely nothing in common

Again. What do these males have in common with women other than calling themselves women?

I'm not being funny, trying,, but your points are not logical. It's irrational to go onto a board about this issue, and try to explain that the commonality is akin to the word horse in clothes horse and horse in race horse.

You might as well compare dog end and dog bowl.

The commonality you are describing is the space in question. Women who need it because of predatory men, and men, predatory or otherwise, (but certainly boundary violating), Who don't want them to have it.

And attempting to redefine lesbian as women who might like heterosexual sex, is homophobic. Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic

There may well be women who are attracted to men who identify as women and women, but that's not the definition of a lesbian. Please stop doing that.