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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What rights don't transpeople have?

775 replies

CrossStichQueen · 29/08/2022 08:46

It's a question I have seen asked many times and it is rarely answered. When it is its usually a list of things that are not "rights" or a list of rights/demands not held by anyone else.

It appears Katie M has provided a list of Countries with each trans right they don't provide. KM has also provided source links however many just link to a chart with dots indicating the "trans right" that country doesn't have. No explanation as to why.
For example:

Albania - No legal name change at all.

Quick look and it turns out in Albania nobody can legally change their name. Anyone can socially change their name and change it on their passport and driving licence but nobody can change their BC. So this is not a right others have and trans are denied as implied by KM it is in fact the same rule for all.

While Albania like many countries is behind on LGB support/rights it appears that the lack of rights transpeople do not have are the same rights those who are LGB are also denied yet it seems only the fact that transpeople don't have them is what matters.

The list for each country is very much the same for those countries that share a geographical location/religion/culture and so the sources linked appear to be the same dot chart I mentioned earlier.

The UK list is interesting.

No legal gender recognition without mental health diagnosis. This only applies to changing your BC and the person must have medical support to state they have/had gender dysphoria. Nobody else in the UK has the right to change their BC

No legal gender recognition without spousal consent. This is so that spouses are not forced to be in a now same sex marriage without their consent once the transperson has changed their BC. Transpeople appear to want to remove the consent of others in a legally binding contract which marriage is

No legal ban on conversion therapy. The Conversion therapy ban in the UK is made up of 3 existing Acts. Sexual offences Act 2003. Criminal justice Act 1988 and the offences against person Act 1861. This covers all physical acts and medication abuse used in order to "convert a person's sexual orientation or gender identity". What the trans movement want is affectively counselling of transpeople banned. This means no transperson could seek therapy if they have feelings of GD or confusion around their gender. That is not a right.

No legal parenthood recognition. Any male or female who parents a child has the right to be legally recognised as either their mother or father dependingon the persons sex. Legally in the UK if you are the biological or adoptive parent you are legally recognised as mother if female and father if male. That right applies to all including transpeople.

No legal right to religious marriage. In the UK no religious organisation can be compelled to marry same sex couples so this is a right LGB people do not have also so why does it only matter for transpeople?

No practical access to trans healthcare. This is just a lie. Transpeople have the same access to healthcare as anyone else in the UK. What the source linked discusses is that some transpeople when polled stated they felt prejudice from some healthcare professionals which "put them off" seeking healthcare. While this prejudice is wrong it is sadly experienced by many different people due to their culture/racce/religion/sexual orientation. Transpeople have the same RIGHT to access healthcare un the UK as anyone else

I havent gone through the whole list but looking at certain countries the rights trans people claim not to have are either the same for all trans or not, women do not have those rights either or those in the LGB community also do not have those rights. It seems to me that the trans Community do not want equal rights or rights for women or those in the wider LGB community they just want trans rights (most of which are not rights) for transpeople only and screw everyone else.

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:52

I want to see the diagram!

Me too!

RoseslnTheHospital · 01/09/2022 00:53

The overarching term that includes trans women and women, is "people".....

CherryBlossomAutumn · 01/09/2022 00:53

Whatever the ultimate overarching term is that encompasses trans-women and born(?)-women; that obviously has to be broken down*

Obviously? Born? Women with an asterisk?

Seriously offensive to me as a woman. Really seriously offensive. I am not going to read a word of someone who could be that offensive.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 00:54

Whatever the ultimate overarching term is that encompasses trans-women and born(?)-women; that obviously has to be broken down*

Before you break it down you have to build it up. There is no set which you are referring to here. If transwoman are in the set with (actual?)women, then men should be too. So the set is actually 'human'

As we've said before, a set needs inclusion and exclusion criteria. There are no criteria which creates a set which TW and women are in and which other men are not.

Your points are all invalid unless you address this elephant in the room.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:54

Whatever the ultimate overarching term is that encompasses trans-women and born(?)-women*

There isn't one, as the two groups have zero in common as groups. HTH.

If you disagree, please provide a non circular definition of "woman" that encompasses both adult human females and some adult human males.

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 00:55

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SongAtTwiighlight · 01/09/2022 00:55

Yes, agree with most recent posters. Men have no right to strip women of women's sex-based rights, and it's a filthy misogynistic mindset to do so.

The invention of "trans women" and "transwomen", and the filthy insult that is "cis women" - we're being stripped of women's rights by the forcible penetration of men into women's single-sex spaces and lesbians' single-sex sexuality.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 00:56

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:51

then having done so set about dogmatically asserting that because there was such a term, this means that magically women and transwoman are now a meaningful sub-set.

And then they said that you had to use a space so "trans" was an adjective because they were women like black women, lesbian women, "cis women". Then they came for "female". Give an inch, they take a thousand miles. Because it's about power.

Yep.

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 00:57

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Whatsnewpussyhat · 01/09/2022 00:57

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:52

I want to see the diagram!

Me too!

Here you go.

What rights don't transpeople have?
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 00:57

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:54

Whatever the ultimate overarching term is that encompasses trans-women and born(?)-women*

There isn't one, as the two groups have zero in common as groups. HTH.

If you disagree, please provide a non circular definition of "woman" that encompasses both adult human females and some adult human males.

@Trying20

This is so key. You must address this if you want to be part of any conversation.

You are skating over this but it is foundational to your arguments.

Nothing else you say can have any value unless you answer this simple question.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 00:58

Whatsnewpussyhat · 01/09/2022 00:57

Here you go.

It was worth waiting up for!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:58

that the definition is wrong?

Bingo @Trying20 and my post only makes any sense at all if I believe that is the guess, so maybe reread my post, and engage with it in good faith, if you can.

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 00:58

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:58

Perfect, thank you @Whatsnewpussyhat

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:59

To say you have nothing in common with trans-women is simply not true.

And all you have to do is spell out what it is, in objective terms.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 00:59

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No that won't work. I am an adult human female. To say I believe is to suggest that this is a matter of belief when it is not. If it becomes a matter of belief then I no longer believe it. i.e. if men can be adult human females by nature of just believing it, then I believe I am not one.

You still have no subset which includes me and a trans woman.

CherryBlossomAutumn · 01/09/2022 01:00

@Ereshkigalangcleg @Whatiswrongwithmyknee I know you are trying to be fair and engage in debate. Which is laudable.

But I think there is harm in engaging with people such as @Trying20 who are being extremely demeaning, degrading and offensive to women by giving them the time of day. They are never going to ‘get it’. They just like to feel all the attention.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 01:00

If you disagree, please provide a non circular definition of "woman" that encompasses both adult human females and some adult human males.

@Trying20

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 01:00

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2022 00:59

To say you have nothing in common with trans-women is simply not true.

And all you have to do is spell out what it is, in objective terms.

Yes can I second that request. I can't think of anything I've got in common with a transwoman but am open to being persuaded otherwise.

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 01:01

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Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 01:02

CherryBlossomAutumn · 01/09/2022 01:00

@Ereshkigalangcleg @Whatiswrongwithmyknee I know you are trying to be fair and engage in debate. Which is laudable.

But I think there is harm in engaging with people such as @Trying20 who are being extremely demeaning, degrading and offensive to women by giving them the time of day. They are never going to ‘get it’. They just like to feel all the attention.

I am probably far too trusting! I do think there is the odd person who is actually willing to properly think and maybe it's my religious upbringing, but I don't like to give up on someone who can be saved!

Trying20 · 01/09/2022 01:02

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Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 01:03

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Yes and you know it.

You only just answered a question which has been repeatedly asked. Your answer is illogical and does not actually provide a meaningful answer.

But you won't clarify.

Why?

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/09/2022 01:04

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I literally just told you that if it's a matter of belief that I don't.