What rights don't transpeople have?

[CrossStichQueen]

It's a question I have seen asked many times and it is rarely answered. When it is its usually a list of things that are not "rights" or a list of rights/demands not held by anyone else.

It appears Katie M has provided a list of Countries with each trans right they don't provide. KM has also provided source links however many just link to a chart with dots indicating the "trans right" that country doesn't have. No explanation as to why.
For example:

Albania - No legal name change at all.

Quick look and it turns out in Albania nobody can legally change their name. Anyone can socially change their name and change it on their passport and driving licence but nobody can change their BC. So this is not a right others have and trans are denied as implied by KM it is in fact the same rule for all.

While Albania like many countries is behind on LGB support/rights it appears that the lack of rights transpeople do not have are the same rights those who are LGB are also denied yet it seems only the fact that transpeople don't have them is what matters.

The list for each country is very much the same for those countries that share a geographical location/religion/culture and so the sources linked appear to be the same dot chart I mentioned earlier.

The UK list is interesting.

No legal gender recognition without mental health diagnosis. This only applies to changing your BC and the person must have medical support to state they have/had gender dysphoria. Nobody else in the UK has the right to change their BC

No legal gender recognition without spousal consent. This is so that spouses are not forced to be in a now same sex marriage without their consent once the transperson has changed their BC. Transpeople appear to want to remove the consent of others in a legally binding contract which marriage is

No legal ban on conversion therapy. The Conversion therapy ban in the UK is made up of 3 existing Acts. Sexual offences Act 2003. Criminal justice Act 1988 and the offences against person Act 1861. This covers all physical acts and medication abuse used in order to "convert a person's sexual orientation or gender identity". What the trans movement want is affectively counselling of transpeople banned. This means no transperson could seek therapy if they have feelings of GD or confusion around their gender. That is not a right.

No legal parenthood recognition. Any male or female who parents a child has the right to be legally recognised as either their mother or father dependingon the persons sex. Legally in the UK if you are the biological or adoptive parent you are legally recognised as mother if female and father if male. That right applies to all including transpeople.

No legal right to religious marriage. In the UK no religious organisation can be compelled to marry same sex couples so this is a right LGB people do not have also so why does it only matter for transpeople?

No practical access to trans healthcare. This is just a lie. Transpeople have the same access to healthcare as anyone else in the UK. What the source linked discusses is that some transpeople when polled stated they felt prejudice from some healthcare professionals which "put them off" seeking healthcare. While this prejudice is wrong it is sadly experienced by many different people due to their culture/racce/religion/sexual orientation. Transpeople have the same RIGHT to access healthcare un the UK as anyone else

I havent gone through the whole list but looking at certain countries the rights trans people claim not to have are either the same for all trans or not, women do not have those rights either or those in the LGB community also do not have those rights. It seems to me that the trans Community do not want equal rights or rights for women or those in the wider LGB community they just want trans rights (most of which are not rights) for transpeople only and screw everyone else.

The female and male socialisation on this thread is very telling.

Men and trans people are not interchangeable.

Yes, that's because not all trans people are men. Female people can be trans people too. Men and male trans people are interchangeable though.

You're not more likely to be raped by someone because they're trans

Yes, we know this. Nobody thinks it's this mysterious "transness" that's the reason.

@Trying20 you must type like a demon!

Do you really believe twaw or are you just being kind?

If you're 6'4'' you're nearly a foot taller than me and if, for the sake of argument, we weighed the same you'd definitely be more muscular. I wouldn't bet against you if we fought. You should check out the prison stats, the percentage of tw in jail for sexual offences compared to regular guys.

Men and trans people are not interchangeable. You're not more likely to be raped by someone because they're trans, you're more likely to be raped by someone because they're a man. The trans process isn't the issue - it's the male socialisation that's the issue.

You're finally starting to sound as though you understand. Male people, however they identify, are the problem. We don't think men who identify as transgender are any more of a threat than any other males, but nor are they any less of a threat. Because they're male.

Oh my word, you can't honestly think this is what women are saying? Have you actually ever read what our posts have said?

Women don't want to share spaces with males. I don't give a damn how tall he is, what he's wearing, whether he has make up on. It's his sex that is the issue, not whatever gender identity he has.

Quite.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. In that specific situation (lesbians/dating), it's only transwomen who are going to be an issue, though, as they are calling themselves 'women' (I'm imagining on a dating app). Males calling themselves men won't, I assume, match up/get past the first hurdle.

With the sexual assaults on women, the issue isn't trans people, it's men (as we know).

No... I am still not seeing that you actually are acknowledging this.

Males of any gender are the issue for any safeguarding needs for females involving males.

Do you acknowledge this?

There is actually no evidence at all that transitioned males commit sex crime at a rate anywhere near that of a female. If we look at the prisoner statistics for the UK, they are MORE likely to commit sex crime than the general male population. However, that could be complicated by other issues. So, let's just settle for transitioned male are JUST AS LIKELY to commit sex crimes against females as any other male.

Is this something you were trying to acknowledge?

Just to be clear about what you are and are not saying?

that's a male socialisation issue, rather than a trans people in the dating scene issue

Yes... it is all about males being male of any gender. Their being 'transitioned males' does not make them a lower risk category for safeguarding females and children.

If you disagree, do you have any statistics that will show us that they are a lower risk?

yes. It was always clear now that I look back.

A person who feels that discussing the needs of females where there is conflicts with another group where sex matter can be summed up with, 'It’s a sort of “made up” war' was telling us right from the start who they were.

I have actually seen no change in posting style or tone at all from those first posts.

@Trying20

The biggest difficulty with this whole issue is that 'Transgender' as a definition has been stretched to include anyone and everyone who says they are.

With that being the case, if we open up Female spaces to anyone who says they are a woman then we are just opening those spaces to men. Yes most men still won't use them because they'll feel uncomfortable or want to be respectful, but those aren't the men were worried about. The ones we are worried about will see this as an open invitation.

Currently the only thing keeping those men out of our spaces is the fact that it is socially unacceptable and they will be noticed. If you see a man walking into a womens changing room or toilet, they stand out, they are unusual which isn't what someone about to commit an assault or crime wants to be.

Make it normal for men to wander in and there is nothing holding them back.

How do you simultaneously change legislation to allow self ID and remove the need for any kind of process or 'living as' requirement, While also changing legislation and societal norms to say that gender conforming people need to use facilities appropriate to their sex but gender non-conforming can use the facilities that match their gender. And how are women supposed to know if the bloke with a beard and jeans walking into the womens communal changing room while we are naked is a man who's a pervert or a man who's feeling feminine today or a bit of both?

Lets pick a bit of a silly one; prisons. You could say trans women shouldn't be in female prisons, so I come on and say "but what about.../where do they go.../etc.../etc..." - they're genuine questions.

Firstly @Trying20 the impact of male rapists in the female prison estate is not silly, do you really have so little respect for vulnerable, incarcerated women that you would think this? So yes from that flippant comment people will judge you and conclude that you have a deep seated streak of misogyny.

Secondly, your questions are perfectly easy to answer - considering that the majority of transwomen in prison are sex offenders then a separate dedicated wing within the male prison estate, or a completely separate building if necessary for trans prisoners. What should absolutely NOT happen is what has happened to date where transwomen prisoners are placed within the female prison estate EVER.

Are you aware that the facility built at Downview women's prison to house transwomen has meant that female youth offenders under the age of 18 are now being place in young male offender units? That facility could and should have been utilised for young female offenders keeping ALL prisons and young offending units absolutely 100% single sex.

You want to read some of the reasons why the powers that be decided to place transwomen in the female estate? It's jaw droppingly offensive and dismissive of any thought or consideration for the female prisoners. So yeah, I am angry, and no I won't temper my language about it.

Kathleen Stock's book is well worth reading. I think it's Chapter 6, "Immersed in a Fiction", that you're referencing?

Except that lesbians should reasonably be able to expect to NEVER have to deal with issues of male socialisation in a dating context! 🤦🏻‍♀️

@Trying20
You might have already seen this on another thread, but I thought it might be helpful to view something from someone who is male/not a GC feminist (ie an outsider's perspective- not from the 'echo chamber' as you see it) and gives a pretty good context for what everyone here is trying to point out. Taking the JKR phenomena as a framing is very clarifying I think. I think he must be a film/culture commentator?
Could watch with your OH after dinner? 😉

Plus, I think he (the YouTuber who created the film) is a gay man

Exactly, @GreyCarpet gender ideology now means that lesbian dating apps and events are now full of heterosexual men. The odds on ending up in a difficult situation are much greater because of men feeling entitled to take the word woman. The fact that they can change it legally adds to that entitlement.

Seriously trying have you actually read post after post of us telling you that there is potentially plenty of commonality?

The issue, and I have also been very clear about this, is that you came onto the thread and used words like incel, made up war, extremist, echo chamber, and kept doubling down.

Thank you for answering.