Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

[ZombieMumEB]

This is horrifying. Women (lesbians) told by police they are going to be removed because abuse is being hurled at these women.

Police do nothing about the person shouting the abuse.

twitter.com/GetTheLOutUK/status/1563490240912044033

Well yes, so I'm not sure why you are being so disingenuous about the pp post. She made a true statement.

I was not at Cardiff Pride so can not comment. But my objection is not to people complaining about a named Pride event. My objection is that so many people are taking one event and then saying all Pride events are like that all around the country. That is blatantly untrue,

She didn't suggest that they were the wrong kind of women. Just that they were most likely "straight"

@CardiffPridedisrupter - I agree with you entirely and support almost everything you do. However, now that you have clarified that you did stop the march (and well done for that protest) I do think that it was unfair to splash the policeman's face all across social media as he was only doing his job which was to remove a group from disrupting the march.

Ah but did you not know? It is now up to straight women to decide what all Prides are like all around the country and condemn them, instead declaring what they should be like.

Ah but did you not know? It is now up to straight women to decide what all Prides are like all around the country and condemn them, instead declaring what they should be like.

Cardiffpridedisrupter is a lesbian, as she made clear.

So are all straight women going to sit out of this thread, if that's the problem?

Sorry, not just straight women but any women who "look straight" somehow.

There are other issues for me, so no. This is an issue of selective police intervention in feminist v TRA protests.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I agree. But I also think the gender-critical crowd are full of nice middle-class ladies who have had little contact with the police. Plenty of us knows the police often behave very badly. And to be honest, if they were not nice middle-class ladies they would be more likely to have been strip-searched and detained for a long period before being released without charge.

Yeah you understand nothing about LGBT if you can say this.

I don't know where you get that idea from. The gender-critical 'crowd' is extremely disparate and includes lots of people of both sexes with plenty of experience of marches, protest groups and the like. In the UK they are more likely to be left-wing than right-wing, although there are people from all political parties perturbed by the flight from reason that gender ideology represents, and the many practical problems resulting from that, many of which are causing long-term harm to children, women and other vulnerable groups.

Helen Steel is gender critical. Ask her what she thinks about the police.

Ask the women who found themselves stuck on the stairs in the Jam Jar in Bristol trying to get to a meeting, with the police outside refusing to intervene. Ask the women who tried to hold a meeting in Manchester who couldn't gather by Mrs Pankhurst's statue, because trans rights activists were blocking the way. Once again, police refused to intervene. Ask the various women who've been arrested and interviewed under caution after complaints from trans rights activists - Marion Millar, Kellie-Jay Keen, Kate Scottow, Jennifer Swayne all come to mind. Ask those who've found that they have non-crime hate incidents recorded against their names by the police, which the police hadn't bothered even to tell them about, never mind try and find out if anything worth recording had even happened - Sarah Phillimore and Harry Miller, for example.

There's been plenty of discussion about the deep-seated misogyny in the police on this board over the years. The Met officers who've been sacked or imprisoned in recent months could fill dozens of threads single-handedly.

But I also think the gender-critical crowd are full of nice middle-class ladies who have had little contact with the police.

Plenty of "queer" people and their allies are also middle class and haven't had any engagement with the police, save for having an "ACAB" banner on their Twitter bio. "Abolish all prisons and free the workers!" LARPing.

Yes! And yet they report all sorts of incidents to the police at the drop of a hat.

I’ll be at FILIA too. I’d just like to see them try to shut down 500 or so determined women.

I think the penis banner was uncalled for at a family event

ive not finished reading the thread

but good lord…seriously!

she didn't say that either.

I said nice middle-class ladies because it is largely true.
Kellie-Jay Keen - a stay-at-home mum living in a very nice middle-class home.
Helen Steel is a long-term activist and trade unionist, no idea what job she does.
Marion Millar is an accountant.
Kate Scottow, do not what job she is doing but she has a Masters's degree in forensic psychology.
Jennifer Swayne is a former teacher.

Helen Steel with her history of activism will understand what the police are like and how they operate. I have seen videos and tweets of others above where it is clear that how the police operate is a shock. They see it as personal. Not realising that it is their nice middle-classness that so far has protected them from the truth about the police and is still partially protecting them.

How the police behave is wrong. But it is not personal.

Helen Steel certainly does understand a lot about how the police operate.

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/11/it-was-as-if-he-set-out-to-destroy-my-sanity-how-the-spy-cops-lied-their-way-into-womens-hearts-and-beds

@Ereshkigalangcleg I know who she is which is why she will be under no illusions.

You don't have to talk about her in an abstract way, it's not that she "will be under no illusions", it's that she is under no illusions, as she was tricked by an undercover officer into a relationship.

The average GC feminist is no more middle class and out of touch than the average "non binary" activist at Pride.

I can just as easily reel off a list of privileged trans activists who are equally unlikely to come into contact with the police. In fact the likes of KJK are far more likely to.

We're into the 'yes but your voice can be dismissed because' bit aren't we? So far we've touched on:

Old
Out of touch
Probably straight
Middle class

I'll wait for the white bit.

No. Sorry. The world doesn't revolve entirely round bright young things with the right politics from the currently fashionable demographics, that isn't inclusion, which is what Pride should be about. And uncomfortable evidence shouldn't be escaped from on the grounds of 'yes but you're probably from x contaminated group so you don't matter'.

If you want to see the impact of TQ+ politics on people at the toughest end of social deprivation take a look at the open letter from the Deptford Women's Project. Who pointed out that the users of their project were somewhat baffled that their homelessness and substance dependency and struggles to access help using forms requiring high levels of education and literacy, should be put aside to be lectured on the far more oppressed and vulnerable group of TQ+ students who had come to educate them on social justice. All of whom the project noted were in fact themselves white, affluent, highly educated and most of them privately, able bodied, yada yada yada, but wished to have a kind of gentrified identity of belonging to the demographics they saw as the 'right' ones. They were not able to actually connect with or listen to that demographic however, they were too busy telling that demographic about the right ways to think and use their language.

I did not say out of touch generally. I said they largely had no previous experience of how the police can behave and appear to be taking it personally not understanding this is how the police are and much worse to anyone at all on the margins. Unless the videos and tweets are simple hyperbole?
Because I am basing that assessment on what these women themselves say.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I do not personally know Helen Steel so it would be strange to use a form of grammar that suggested I did.