Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

[ZombieMumEB]

This is horrifying. Women (lesbians) told by police they are going to be removed because abuse is being hurled at these women.

Police do nothing about the person shouting the abuse.

twitter.com/GetTheLOutUK/status/1563490240912044033

Many transwomen are perfectly comfortable with their sex and happy to be described as male. You can't presume to speak for all transwomen and it's dishonest to do so.

mirandayardley.com/en/transwomen-are-not-women/

So Hearach - you actually AGREE that transwomen are males who transition to "become" female?

I can't see how your description differs from the one that you took offence to.
They are saying the same thing.

Transwomen are males who transition
ergo
they are males at birth who then transition
ergo
they are transitioned males

Help me out someone?
What's the difference in what order you put the words?

You also have a brass neck trying to tell us what phrases are and are not offensive when TRAs campaign to change language and literature that mention words they find "triggering" or "offensive" (chest feeders, cervix havers, bleeders etc).
Don't you think WOMEN find these terms offensive?
Why does offence only work one way?

Stating biological reality is not offensive.

This one is very helpful (as well as reassuring),
courtesy of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gyne:

Table 1. Terminology
Cis-woman,
cis-man or cisgendered
A person whose gender identity is congruent with the sex assigned at birth
Trans woman Person assigned male at birth with a female gender identity (AMAB); some do
not use this term and self-describe as ‘woman, with a trans history’
Trans man Person assigned female at birth with a male gender identity (AFAB); some do
not use this term and self-describe as ‘man, with a trans history’
Transsexual A gender identity that is inconsistent with, or not culturally associated with,
the assigned sex; discourteous when used as a noun
Trans gender A more appropriate term than transsexual, which may also imply use of
hormones and/or surgery
Trans feminine Assigned male at birth, experiencing and/or expressing a more feminine
identity, but not necessarily identifying as a woman
Trans masculine Assigned female at birth, experiencing and/or expressing a more masculine
identity, but not necessarily identifying as a man
Non-binary A person who experiences and/or express an identity other than ‘man’ or
woman’; may include people who identify as being of both genders (bigender) or having no gender (agender)
Transitioning Adopting the outward or physical characteristics of the gender one identifies
with, as opposed to the one assigned at birth; not all TGD people will affirm
that they have ‘transitioned’.
Gender dysphoria Distress or psychosocial discomfort associated with the individual’s sex
assigned at birth
LGBTQQIAPP+ An acronym representing lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, questioning,
intersex, asexual, a-romantic, pansexual, polysexual (sometimes abbreviated
to LGBT or LGBTQ+) people.
Top surgery Masculinising (i.e. reduction mammoplasty) or feminising (i.e. augmentation
mammoplasty) chest reconstruction surgery
Bottom (or lower)
Surgery
Masculinising (i.e. phalloplasty or metoidioplasty) or feminising (i.e.
vulvoplasty, with or without vaginoplasty) genital reconstruction surgery
Cis-sexism Prejudice in favour of cis-gender people"

Well, looks pretty simple and straightforward to me.
With that in mind (and I mean all of it) I am just astonished and, err like WTF are we even arguing
about here?!
You know...
I'm going to plaster this all over my fucking living
room (not bedroom though, as this may result...well,
safety first/no nightmares and cold sweats)
and absolutely absorb every single word and phrase.
Absorb, learn and internalise and I'll be cured in no time
at all.
Very easy.

@Hearach15 if some men find the truth offensive then tough. I really do not care if I hurt their/his feelings.
call me all the names you want. I don’t care about that either.
If it offends you that we call a man a man, then tough. I don’t care.
The biological truth and the safety, privacy and dignity of women is what I do care about.

Fucking ‘ell Nora! Wtf are us normies meant to do with THAT? 😵‍💫

Great post Norma , the thing they don't understand about women is .... men have called us horrendous and insulting names for most of our lives, we are used to it , it's nothing new . We don't care anymore after all these names are a lot nicer than some I've been called!

Also am I alone in feeling hungry when I see tef ? I immediately think of surf and te*f !

Not sure about bold there!

Word salad still doesn't change biology.
Never has, never will.

Deal with it.

Biology is real, sex is real.
And unchangeable.
Call it any made up name you please.
The facts don't change, because facts don't care about your feelings.

Having a "trans history" as a transwoman just means what we all know it means.
Male.

And just in case you're interested in transitioning
into a functioning (of sorts) male, the same Royal College (very friendly bunch they are too) has this on offer:

"Erection device
Usually, the phallus needs an internal inflatable or malleable erectile device to attain sufficient rigidity
for sexual penetration. This will need replacing from time to time for mechanical failure."

And once you get that neatly installed, well I should
imagine the world's yours to conquer.
Happy days and I'll drink to that!
Any and all "sufficient rigidity" is always most welcome
in my eyes. Can't argue with "sufficient rigidity",
can you now?

It's such a shame. I have no doubt the experience of being a gender non-conforming male would give insight into gender biases that we as women don't see, and vice versa. Talking honestly together about what is the same and what is different would expand the bandwidth and the understanding of what it is to be male and to be female in our society.

Instead, we as women experience an act of colonisation where we must subject to redefinition in another's image, with our own voices and truth held to be unsayable, while trans women (only the TRA version, but that's the version currently culturally dominant) are being lead into trapping themselves in a false and impossible idea of womanhood and the pain of being failing to achieve it instead of being accepted for exactly who they are.

So Hearach - you are still asserting that TW are not biologically male when they become trans women?

A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth.

You are claiming that their sex changes from male to female, biologically. Is that correct? (I'm assuming, again, because you can't answer questions directly, from your use of the past tense). It's easier if you say 'yes' or 'no' instead of commenting on what you think my level of knowledge is, etc.

Can someone PLEASE think of the CLOWNFISH!

"I really do not care if I hurt their/his feelings."

Fair enough if you don't care about the feelings of trans people. It's good that you're honest instead of pretending otherwise.

But you want people to 'pretend otherwise' when it comes to pretending we can't see sex.

Or indeed pretend we cant' remember someone's sex -- in the case of most of the transpeople I know, we've known them since long before their transition.

I would be so much happier if we could all stop pretending we think middle-aged dads are suddenly women, or girls we've known from babyhood are men.

I don’t care about hurting his feelings when he wants me to lie for him, and to disregard my own comfort and safety.

This piece from "The Critic" (an old article I saved)
offers a good insight into the general and intellectual
fragility of the TRA movement (and why Lesbians
are not welcome anymore):

(...)"Because, like many trans women, Chu’s conception of herself is not just as feminine, or even womanly, but as, crucially, female: a woman in every possible sense of the word. Yet at the same time Chu writes of the vulnerability of that identity, the constant internal and external threat of invalidation:

'Gender transition begins, after all, from the understanding that how you identify yourself subjectively — as precious and important as this identification may be — is nevertheless on its own basically worthless. If identity were all there were to gender, transition would be as easy as thinking it — a light bulb, suddenly switched on. Your gender identity would simply exist, in mute abstraction, and no one, least of all yourself, would care. On the contrary, if there is any lesson of gender transition — from the simplest request regarding pronouns to the most invasive surgeries — it’s that gender is something other people have to give you. Gender exists if it is to exist at all, only in the structural generosity of strangers.'"

Food for thought...

thecritic.co.uk/issues/january-2020/sissy-porn-and-trans-dirty-laundry/

Reposting this

Which specific poll are you referring to that I applied to the UK LGBT population?

Hearach, HOW is acknowledging biology transphobic?

We have to hurt people's feelings all the time in some situations don't we?
If my child wants to jump off a building because they think they can fly, I would probably stop them doing that. It might hurt their feelings.
If a 4 foot tall, 6 stone woman wanted to become a heavyweight boxer, it might be impossible for her, and might hurt her feelings if she was stopped from doing that.
Some things are governed by common sense and physical reality.
Stating them is not "phobic" just because it hurts someone's feelings.

Who do people think they are, that they are somehow entitled to go through life without anyone hurting their feelings and others being compelled to use THEIR choice of words or language?
Who else in society thinks they have that much power?
Apart from the sacred caste?

@Hearach15
"As I said, I much prefer it when people openly admit to being transphobic rather than pretending otherwise."

Nobody here, as I can see, needs any pretending.
For whatever reason.
People are just expressing THEIR feelings and opinions.
Redefining ad nauseam the ultimate insult of
"transphobia/transphobic" won't wash any longer
as it's now completely fucking meaningless.
Faffing about with it and tossing it at (almost)
everyone just in case they don't or won't toe a particular line of current social dogma will NOT help to advance
the TRA cause. Or whatever it now is.

(Jesus possibly wept at this point...)

why should we care when the end result of pandering to those feelings is the loss of our rights, language, spaces and services?

some of us have had to actively fight off the female socialisation that taught us the feelings of male transitioners were not to be questioned, let alone pushed back against.

it’s been a hard slog to get to the point where i am comfortable calling a male a male without apology, you can’t shame me back into compliance now.

no thank you.

So, to be absolutely clear, your definition of "transphobic" is "is not prepared to put trans people's feelings above every other group's feelings, needs or safety"?