Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

[ZombieMumEB]

This is horrifying. Women (lesbians) told by police they are going to be removed because abuse is being hurled at these women.

Police do nothing about the person shouting the abuse.

twitter.com/GetTheLOutUK/status/1563490240912044033

Well no, I think if one was born male but with some brain bit communicating that you are female, that would lead you to feel you were female I imagine.

@mattermore you are straying into the 'lady brain' idea here, an idea and belief that has been used against women by men for millenia in order to keep them in their place, out of education, out of professions, etc., etc., please don't, it's incredibly insulting and offensive and has been roundly debunked many times over.

If you had a brain bit communicating that you were Napoleon, or that other people were demons who wanted to kill you or that you could fly, would you recommend a) treatment or b) directions to Moscow, a church or a tall building respectively?

Don't get me wrong, I get that people might strongly want to be the opposite sex, or feel that they relate only to feminine things or masculine things. That doesn't mean they are any other sex than the body they are in.

If you are a male person with a certain type of brain - perhaps you are empathetic or have an eye for colour - then that's you, and that's an example of a male brain.

If you are a male person with a certain type of brain - perhaps you are empathetic or have an eye for colour - then that's you, and that's an example of a male brain.

Yeah, that's the thing I really don't get as well.

That people could observe, quite rightly, that some of the brains that grow as part male bodies think a way society doesn't expect a man to think, or the way that person thinks men must think, but instead of concluding "oh, I guess men are more varied than we thought" it's all "oh that means you must actually be a women, which must mean we've totally misunderstood what men and women are since the dawn of time"

They never ask themselves why we would even have this idea of men and women in the first place, if it wasn't from observing the different types of body?

Do they really believe that somehow humanity realised a truth that mutually exclusive groups "men" and "women" exist even though the reason to think it, ie the observation of two sexes, is apparently entirely wrong?

And if that's not improbable enough, do they really think it's likely that by some crazy coincidence, society could have been totally wrong about which people are women, yet somehow the women-only provisions like sports, toilets, political movements that were set up based on that misunderstanding are exactly right for the "real" women anyway, so those real women (ie the ones that meet this newly understood, correct identity definition not the old misunderstood body type definition) can just slip right in with nothing else needing to change because of it?

I haven’t said that at all.

You clearly missed the bit where I said ‘Obviously I made made this up’ . Or chose to ignore it to enable an opportunity to be sneery.

No it not what I mean.

twitter.com/mcdonnelljp/status/1566481668076195841?s=21&t=9mg6THYSVyNlX1z6F-ANyw

Is Dresden Pride part of the same organisation?

It obviously is part of the same movement for certain.

Can everyone see it? The love and tolerance of the particular group of LGBT+ people some posters are celebrating?

Who needs to quibble about where the stats come from. When we have posters celebrating a gay male being assaulted, abused and harassed at Pride recently for wearing a shirt with the LGB Alliance logo, celebrating the lesbians from GetTheLOut having their banners attacked and them being harassed and abused.

I wonder if they also celebrated lesbians in Bordeaux marches being attacked with flares, and whether they will be back to celebrate this sign of wonderful tolerance and solidarity?

It is also eye opening. The events and incidents that some people
will ignore from people they celebrate actively supporting, while they vilify and demonise people who don’t agree with them….

Tolerance is another one of those words that have been redefined, I think.

Yes, people with sex dysphoria should have access to treatment to help them manage that dysphoria.

But that's the point isn't it? You made that up to make a point. There is now an abundance of made up theory which sounds quite plausible - I completely fell for the possibility of the female brain in a male body idea for a while. But it's all MADE UP. It's also out there and young people are reading it and absorbing it and believing it to be true. And instead of being older and wiser and more critical, many policy makers are also taking all this made up theory seriously. ' Well it sounds plausible so there must be something in it'.

It only becomes obvious when you start to think critically.

As my DH says to me when I mention all the problems being caused by the adoption of gender ideology; 'Well it's patently obvious isn't it, why did it take you so long to wake up?'

And the whole point of what the TRA movement is doing is to scare people out of thinking critically. If you say ANYTHING which challenges this you are a hateful bigot ( and no one wants to be one of those, do they? Especially kind and open minded liberal types such as myself). It is exactly the same as the tailors telling everyone that if the can't see the Emperor's New Clothes they are stupid! It's a strategy as old as humanity!

Though the big difference here is that I am not trying to change public policy but on the basis of what I am saying I made up. So no, no comparison there!

What I am doing is nearer to a hypothesis. You know, where people come up with possible explanations and explore them. That’s the difference between where I am at and what you are ( wrongly) comparing me to.

There shouldn’t have been a ‘but’ in that first sentence.

@mattermore No, but the scary thing is that lots of people are right now (Scotland, Bristol). And lots of people are losing their jobs or education because they commit the crime of critical thinking. Did you see the video of the young man who was thrown out of college for saying there are only two genders? Students challenge and question all the time, it's not a crime to have an opinion even if it's factually wrong. Currently, people are facing really serious consequences for stating something which is factually correct. The JK Rowling essay was one of the things which opened my eyes - I actually read it and thought I must have read the wrong thing because it's not transphobic, just caring about women's safety.

While I'm thinking about it - I also think this is the frog in a boiling pot analogy. There was a big pot called women's rights, gay rights, racial equality, being open minded and accepting. All the good people jumped in. When trans right joined, of course everyone was accepting of people who wanted to challenge gender stereotypes. But very slowly and incrementally we have gone from a few people who just wanted to dress as they wanted and be accepted, to not being able to say that a woman is an adult human female or say that women can expect safe single sex spaces or that teenage girls who aren't feminine can shouldn't be damaging their bodies irreparably or that Lesbians can say no to penises. It's proving very difficult for a lot of people to jump out of that pot! And there are some people doing their very best to keep the kind people in there. However, once you're out it really is like a breath of fresh air not playing ridiculous mind games anymore.

@Wellies54

I am fully gender critical and actively so in real life! Very aware of all the issues.

@mattermore Exploring, possible explanations Been there, done that - now out the other side!

That's good to hear! Sorry for being patronizing - I agree it's still always good to be critical and think around the subject!

@Wellies54 I like the boiling frog analogy, especially as the tras don't realise they're in here with the rest of us. Also, to labour the point, when people say, 'it's getting a bit hot, I'm getting out', the tras say, 'but fire', and then try to make sure they'll burn in it.

@mattermore your 'obviously, I made this up', made me laugh.

Thanks and that’s ok, no problem. Sorry for being snarky earlier.

Like many others, I don't actually care how a TW sees themselves, that's their business.

The problem comes when everybody else is compelled to participate in this distorted self image (which is what it is). No other delusion is pandered to in this way, where laws and policy and language are changed to accommodate it, at the expense of others.

I think the problem is more that the term TW has expanded to be meaningless.
When it meant people with dysphoria who were presenting to genuinely appear as female to others, as a way to manage their dysphoria, that was arguably a reasonable accommodation

The problem now is that (a) there is no definition of TW ( ‘anyone who says they are’ is not a definition).
(b) anyone who says they are a woman, literally is in all circumstances without exception and regardless of the consequence for XX women.
(c) they need make no effort to appear as female, so no one can challenge even the most stereotypically presenting males in female spaces.
D) Anyone who disagrees with the above must be silenced or destroyed.

It’s these tenets of gender ideology that are the problem.

So my OH has had some security training, and he has told me unless the police outnumber the threatening group by at least three to one, they won't remove them, they'll remove the victims.

This is a big problem because TRAs probably know this (they're organised). You'd need more police at these demo's than demonstrators to get them to start detaining people.

Doesn't excuse them not following up later for their violence or threats though.

I agree with you completely matter

Doesn't excuse them not following up later for their violence or threats though.

Or indeed of repeating the mistake of under-policing the events? They've got no excuse by now to be underestimating the threat of trans activists.