Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

[ZombieMumEB]

This is horrifying. Women (lesbians) told by police they are going to be removed because abuse is being hurled at these women.

Police do nothing about the person shouting the abuse.

twitter.com/GetTheLOutUK/status/1563490240912044033

If we can tell that the man is a man, despite (or possibly because of) draggy traditional feminine gender coded stuff, rejected by lots on women, like frocks and makeup and wigs, then who is anyone to tell us that our own perceptions, out own senses, are wrong?

@Helleofabore
Indeed I believe earache is a one person peaking machine!

Yes, I’d be interested in the original data too.

Really surprised you don't know there's a generational gap on many issues

I was thinking of this last night.

This actually highlights the differences in approaches.

While I ask to see original data, because I believe not only in checking everything a dishonest poster says, but also I don’t think there are insurmountable gaps in opinions between ‘generations’. I also look further and analyse all the data collected. And I find it fascinating to see how opinions change as a person get older and more exposed to the realities of life, rather than over simplified, absolutist, reactive thinking.

Yet, posters on this board are the ones painted to be narrow in vision, and pessimist by some others when it is clear, it is the other way around. Those who share opinions with Hearache, for instance, voice those pessimistic, divisive, absolutist and very intolerant opinions without pause.

They take everything they read as being unquestionable truth. Never having to check or to interpret something themselves.

The projection and gaslighting becomes so obvious when you see hearaches posts and realise how much they use sleight of hand, bad faith interpretations and generally, dishonesty, for whatever their real purpose is.

I still have my doubts. Because under scrutiny, Hearache’s posts aren’t actually supporting the LGBT community on anything but a very superficial level. Sometimes they don’t even reach that low bar at all.

It is a pattern oft repeated by extreme activists. I suspect that Hearache simply copies what they see on other social media platforms and doesn’t see the damage.

Because otherwise they really are someone who is deliberately trying to make the LGBT community look so intolerant, uninterested in truth and reality, unable to interact with anything but purity of thought and so unable to interact with facts through lack of skill, or determination to ignore, or other reasons.

And I find that bleak indeed.

It's very interesting that to me that you still won't admit to being transphobic while also referring to trans women as "transitioned males".

Some of us prefer a three letter word beginning with M and ending with N.

Our beliefs (that people cannot change sex and that in some circumstances, sex matters) are worthy of respect in a democratic society as tested in a court of law.

If you stop imagining transphobia everywhere, you’ll probably be happier.

Are trans women male people who have transitioned - yes or no?

Is Hearach saying the answer is 'no'? I can't tell what their position actually is because they can't answer questions.

I can only assume they are asserting that trans women are either males who have not transitioned - so all male people - which is transphobic, or that they are biologically female, therefore cannot be trans as there is no "mismatch" between sex and gender.

Which is transphobic.

Only confirms my existing opinion of them. Poe's law though.

Come on Hearach!!!!!
WHAT is a transwoman if they are NOT a male who has transitioned?
WHAT is transphobic about saying this?

It's odd how you scuttle off when there's another very simple question that you cannot answer.

The simple questions are the ones that show up this ideology for the crap that it is.

What is a transwoman Hearach?

As I am not transphobic, of course I won't admit it.

Is this ALL you have left? Another pointing of fingers throwing around slurs and name calling.

I will own to calling transitioned males, transitioned males when it is entirely relevant. And as this board discusses the conflict of the demands made by transitioned males on the rights of all females, it means that on this board I will continue to use that phrase. Despite the fact you have attempted this before.

Your lack of evidence, data that supports the claims you make about prioritising males over females when it comes to issues where sex matters, and just plain logic.

Your posts of constant twisting, pivoting, deflections, hyperbole, hypocrisy and dishonesty means you don't seem to be able to do anything else.

@Helleofabore , your response has been excellent throughout but I think your wasting your time with earache they don't have the wit to really push their argument across and now I think are deliberately pushing your buttons.
They have achieved nothing but the opposite of their intention and shown any lurkers the biased and unscrupulous methods of tra agenda.

Thanks jeffgoldblum. I appreciate the lovely flowers. And yes, Hearache most definitely is attempting to push my buttons.

Yes I'm feeling extremely irritated now , and wish there was a block button for certain posters!
It ruins threads of interesting discussion when posters vomit thier vile sputum onto valid discussion! 😡

I don't post often as I have very little to add but I read all the threads , so it's easier sometimes for me to spot the patterns!

I think the problem is more that the term TW has expanded to be meaningless.
When it meant people with dysphoria who were presenting to genuinely appear as female to others, as a way to manage their dysphoria, that was arguably a reasonable accommodation

Yes. I think of it as flipping from "as a" to "is a"

When a trans woman was understood to be a man who wanted, for reasons that may have varied between people but always connected to mental health, to be treated as a woman, that definition could stand alone. It did not require us to redefine womanhood as a mental state, nor to transfer the history of women's oppression under patriarchy, and with it the right to access mitigating social structures that support women, to a group that never in reality experienced it.

It was a definition that allowed for acceptance of trans women socially alongside acceptance that there would be times when it was not appropriate to treat such men as women, without negating anything about the trans woman.

When the narrative flipped to a trans women is a woman, it was not just a minor evolution in a journey towards acceptance of gender non-conformance. It entirely changed the proposition on which trans people had previously been accepted.

In order for a trans woman to be a woman, womanhood itself had to be redefined for all women into something that could be found in a male body.

In one swoop, to accommodate the feelings of people who have never and could never experience life in a female body, the experience of half the population was delegitimised.

If a trans women is a woman, then any boundary between trans women and what, for want of a better term, I will call the group formerly known as women is framed as a denial of the former's womanhood. It becomes an act of bigotry and negation of her identity.

By this simple sleight of definition, every individual scenario where trans women should or should not access to female-only support has been flipped from considering whether to grant additional accommodation into whether to refuse an expected right. It put female people on the back foot of having to defend what was already in place, and put in place for practical reasons, not because of any change to those practical needs but simply because the meaning of a word changed.

And I doubt it was accidental.

Excellent post, FlirtsWith

If you think you can quote a poll of the general British population and think it is somehow reflective of the views of the British LGBT population you know even less about polling than you do LGBT issues.

Professor Sir John Curtice is the best in the business, I would start with him.

jeffgoldblum · Today 11:44
@Helleofabore , "your response has been excellent throughout but I think your wasting your time with earache they don't have the wit to really push their argument across and now I think are deliberately pushing your buttons."

Precisely.
It's like trying to have a rational, fact-based debate
with a toddler having a tantrum fit.
And the best line in all of this is the perennial
"you transphobe stop being so transphobic"
sprinkled with lots of angry saliva.
I for one, wouldn't even bother addressing any
"transphobe" label thrown at me.
Means absolutely fuck all at this point as its
meaning/scope is entirely in the eye (Earache)
of the beholder.
The more unhinged, intellectually bereft they are
the more "transphobic" you become as a result.
Happy to oblige and be a "transphobe" for the rest of
my life then.

A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at first.

They do not like to be referred to as "male" and find it offensive. You continue to do this because you don't care about their feelings.

*male at birth

Truth isn’t offensive, its just true.

Perhaps we should seek to commission a clearly worded survey - as Helen Staniland did, but specific for LGB respondents?

I expect the dial has moved rather considerably since 2018 and Helen’s questions would now get an even more GC response…

twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1055128928174641153?s=21&t=Hwe9wiwnOn6cVELgXplpSg

Except you can't. That is why transphobia is such a threat to butch cis women:

www.newstimes.com/local/article/Woman-mistaken-for-transgender-harassed-in-7471666.php

inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787

www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment

🤣 , all three are from 2016 , two about the same person , all American!
Try harder!

Humans can’t change sex so if you are correctly observed male at birth (or born with ambiguous genitals and declared male after further tests) you are also male at death. And vice versa, obvs.

Transgender and sex are two separate things. The clue is in the name.

If you think you can quote a poll of the general British population and think it is somehow reflective of the views of the British LGBT population you know even less about polling than you do LGBT issues.

mmm.... refresh my memory again.

Which specific poll are you referring to that I applied to the UK LGBT population?

@Hearach15
"They do not like to be referred to as "male" and find it offensive. You continue to do this because you don't care about their feelings."

Oh, FFS!!!
Shoot me right now and put me out of my misery.
Wicked, wicked hags with tits & vaginas calling
males with bollocks & dicks males which so hurts
"their feelings" they can't fucking think straight
with their brains being fried by some faulty wiring.

Send us all an assortment of violins.
Or cellos. And we might just reconsider.

(I'll have a quick lie-down to cry meself a river.)