Antipodean fruit grower statement

[nothingcomestonothing]

The antipodean fruit growers site is down. A statement from the owner reads in part:

What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [redacted by me as would be against MN talk guidelines] while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which criticizes [redacted], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead.

Posted for info.

i went on the fruit forum once….i did not like it, the small section i read was very homophobic, and ive not visited since

I agree with this. It was also misogynistic, spoke of individuals who identify as trans in appallingly hateful language and isn't a place that I condone.

For the 'what abouters' here I'd also add that I find many parts of Twitter the same, Facebook too and a myriad of other sites. Many porn sites sicken me with their objectification of women. Happy to say so, and have said so, on many threads about these but that isn't the topic of conversation here.

Someone above said the farms are where you can call a spade a spade, but I think it's more of a place where you can call a spade an expletive retarded
expletive stinking, rusty shovel or worse.

They have many ghastly posters and some hilarious ones, and many informative ones. There are a gazillion threads, which vary greatly in tone and content. For the curious Mumsnetters who haven't visited it before, and want to see one of the darker aspects, I recommend searching for some threads about feminism. For example, many of the regular posters take it as a given that feminism is causing the degradation/breakdown of society, that white women should be servicing white men and having more white babies while all other women are having too many babies.

I think the one thing that radical feminist and the majority of the farmers have in common is the desire to keep pedophiles or would-be medicalizers away from kids. But they'll also use "pedo" as a random insult.

While a TWAW type of feminist may well call for the suppression of free speech,
I don't think I've heard any feminist I respect do so. Because free speech, duh.
Anna Slatz has/had an account there, and took flak for it.

There are also very informative posters there, and as mentioned above, receipts are demanded, preferably archived. These demands may well be accompanied with super impolite insults.

They have flabbergastingly huge amounts of meticulously well documented and sourced information about nefarious TRAs, a fair amount of which has come to these boards from there.

Also, for various current events, there are threads in which you can find (among the slapfights and BS) sourced information which is much more in depth and ahead of the news curve than in mainstream media.

Yes. Always ask for evidence. Find the receipts, archives, screenshots, etc.

And now they have been deleted.

How many times do you do this, ganymede? Go in to bat for a poster you minimise as ‘just disagreeing’ and then that poster is deleted, sometimes banned, for the actions that were clear to others.

Your track record is not great on this.

While a TWAW type of feminist may well call for the suppression of free speech,
I don't think I've heard any feminist I respect do so. Because free speech, duh.

In the 1980s and leading into the 1990s there was a substantial debate amongst feminists about free speech, with some, for example, following Dworkin and MacKinnon, making a case for pornography to be banned because it stifled the free speech of women. Although not quite the same thing, this came from this.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipornography_Civil_Rights_Ordinance

'Free speech' is a liberal feminist mainstay and radical feminists and others have asked what it might mean for women in a patriarchal society where men have power over women.

I see as usual TRA harassing & doxxing is fine cos reasons but KF doing it is unacceptable

Where has anyone said that's ok?

for the avoidance of doubt no one should be harassing or doxxing anyone anywhere
Completely agree

If it wasn’t for KiwiFarms I reckon Aimee Challoner and Challoner’s self confessed ‘MAP’ husband would still be working as Reddit admins/mods in subs aimed at LGB&T teenagers.

Jessica Yaniv would likely still be sexually intimidating immigrant women and extorting them financially through their small businesses.

And would Chris Chan’s awful crime (raping his elderly dementia sufferer mother, have been known about or reported to the police if Chan’s previous behaviours hadn’t resulted in an internet audience?

it’s worth putting up with some nasty insulting language (part of free speech) in order to have a place where discussing the behaviour of dangerous adults is not just permitted but expected to be evidenced and documented.

We don’t have to like the language to recognise the value in having somewhere to discuss these issues.

Mumsnet has a different set of laws to follow and has a different ethos (enabling peer to peer support for parents of either sex and women in general) so rightly has a different set of site conduct rules.

Nonetheless both Null and Justine seem to share an understanding of the importance of being able to speak freely, within the constraints of the law and within rules that keep their very different sites functioning (personally I appreciate Null’s rules regarding porn, as constantly stumbling across NSFW content on Reddit makes it difficult to get anything much from the rest of it. eg most of the Reddit fashion and style subs are full of OnlyFans bots, like MLMhuns but naked and footwear fetishists).

Where has anyone said that's ok?

TRAs and their supporters frequently justify posting women's people's personal info that is available in the public domain, if you go looking for it. That's all a lot of the Kiwi Farms stuff is too.

And no I'm not defending it, I just don't like hypocrites.

For that reason, I very rarely report anyone, because I do value free speech. Personal attacks are against talk guidelines though, so don't be surprised if these posts are reported and deleted.

In the 1980s and leading into the 1990s there was a substantial debate amongst feminists about free speech, with some, for example, following Dworkin and MacKinnon, making a case for pornography to be banned because it stifled the free speech of women. Although not quite the same thing, this came from this.

I've always been a bit perplexed how pornography can be palmed off as any type of "speech," especially when the ones flogging it are generally not the ones appearing in it. All the more so because many of those appearing in it are not doing so freely.

Just to make a point, many of the deletions on this particular part of Mumsnet are from the monitors, not from people who don't agree with the comment. If it makes certain people look bad, mentions things we cannot talk about, or reveals tactics then they get reported.

As well as the PP, I rarely report stuff unless it is spam.

Exactly.

Always check. Think for yourself. Look at all the different sides and versions before you draw a conclusion.

And then look at who is desperate to shut who up, and what they are desperate to hide, and why.

Its nothing to do with disagreeing and everything to do with personal attacks and lying about posters

Anytime I see Gcooncil posting it's always deleted 😂😂😂

That's quite an assumption to make. Like other posters I rarely report anything on MN, I've probably made half a dozen reports in the last three or four years, nearly all of them for obvious pervs in AIBU. I think I reported one post for being an abusive personal attack on another poster.

I'm happy to let posts stand no matter how much I may disagree with the opinion expressed.

I've always been a bit perplexed how pornography can be palmed off as any type of "speech," especially when the ones flogging it are generally not the ones appearing in it.

The same would go for any form of play or film though.

I guess when they come for Mumsnet loads of people will be on about how evil it was, with a good dose of how they hate all men, how they dared to have the LTB acronym, and how women shouldn't have been allowed to talk amongst themselves without permission.

Because they are coming for here next.

At the moment, MN, and not just FWR, has seen an increase in non-genuine posters, and banned posters returning,where they are constantly name changing.

If posts are being deleted. It is very possible that the poster is not in anyway a genuine poster who is here to engage within the guidelines.

I have seen complaints about this on other boards as well.

So, no. I don’t assume that deletions are about ‘limiting’ who speaks if posters are genuine and seeking engagement. Are you here to engage actively Jembrowski or … not?

And if not, why shouldn’t your post be deleted if you cannot be arsed to follow the guidelines?

The same would go for any form of play or film though.

Point taken.

Don't forget YouTube!

That wasn't Kiwi Farms, that was some trolls from YouTube.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/chris-chan-incest-trolling-harassment-kiwi-farms-bluespike-liquid-chris-2021-8%3famp

So I gotta ask how you know Kiwi Farms has been hassling your daughter, because it's not really what the site does.

I note that those determined to see KF removed are those about whom the truth is told there.

Me, Caroline Farrow, and Adrian Yalland have had our phone numbers and addresses doxed. Now, what might connect a left wing lesbian, Catholic commentator, and a-actually-recognised-by-regulatory-bodies-Barrister? I'll leave someone else to speculate.

We have also had the very worst lies posted about people close to us. In my case, a poster called 'Julies Ghost' was utterly obsessed with the details of my marriage (perhaps more so than me the actual person IN it) and lied I am guilty of domestic abuse. Caroline and Adrian's children have been targeted. Again, I cannot think what connects us.

But do I want the site removed? No. Plainly, I wish such posts were not made, but I accept we need somewhere to discuss ridiculous people who behave in ridiculous ways without fear of censure or being sued. The solution to not having a thread made about you is not to behave in criminally insane ways such as posting under my late wife's name.

Does this mean I endorse everything on KF? No. Some are confusing defending free speech principles with defending KF in it's entirety. If you defend the latter, you must accept occasionally objectionable things. That also goes for me (and in return, I will comment about the despicable man who has abused me and my friends for two years on there).

Also, Discord is a proper filthy site, riddled with misogyny anime & furry porn!

Obviously any adult is free an to frequent anywhere legal online that take’s their fancy, nonetheless though, Discord might not be a good fit for a young lesbian? Of course, I’m assuming we’re using the old fashioned definition of lesbian here…

2019 Newsweek article about Discord: www.newsweek.com/discord-furries-terms-service-community-guidelines-1323099?amp=1