Antipodean fruit grower statement

[nothingcomestonothing]

The antipodean fruit growers site is down. A statement from the owner reads in part:

What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [redacted by me as would be against MN talk guidelines] while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which criticizes [redacted], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead.

Posted for info.

YetAnotherSpartacus, was Julie aware of those threads about her on KF?

I believe that she was as have been the other three people who have taken their own lives in the context of KF's threads about them.

I deliberately didn't suggest a causal link in my post though because for me it is enough that the discussion happened to consider it as misogynistic (which was my main point).

You've been here longer than I have, Datun, and I've been here for well over five years (I've lost count). Do you see the thread in question as problematic in terms of its misogyny?

I haven't read the thread in question. I tend to use the site to cross reference things here and there.

But I have no trouble at all believing that some of the posts are misogynistic.

Although I find their documenting things very useful, clearly some of the ranting serves something of an inner need.

Do you think they were shocked when she killed herself?

I also want to point out that YetAnotherSpartacus is a staunch feminist, and, in my opinion, would only ever be motivated by that.

Do you have any receipts for that outrageous claim?

Ooooh a receipt :)

Nah. I'm gonna tell you to do your own research and make your own mind up. What I suggest you do is to google 'Kiwi Farms' and read some of the links you find. When you do, you will find that some are from mainstream-ish news outlets, some from blogs and some from a range of sites that specifically call out KFs for their attitudes towards transpeople (so, sites, that, in turn we'd likely disagree with here). Amongst those, you'll find documented links to threads about people who have taken their own lives in the context of KF activity about them. You can then trace the names back to KF and see for yourself KF did and said and the circumstances around each death. Do your own research and make your own minds up.

Receipts here.
news.yahoo.com/inside-history-kiwi-farms-controversial-194906787.html

Do you think they were shocked when she killed herself?

I'm not sure it is that much of a hive mind... I found many of the reactions exceedingly distasteful.

I also want to point out that YetAnotherSpartacus is a staunch feminist, and, in my opinion, would only ever be motivated by that.

Absolutely. I'm also motivated by basic humanity though.

I'm concerned that there may be something like forced teaming going on. There are posts on both Mumsnet and Ovarit claiming 'if Kf is taken down, this site will be next' and whipping up support for Kf. But neither Mumsnet or Ovarit is anything like Kf.
Take a step back and see how this plays out because I don't think anything that's happening is an accident or coincidence.

One other thing ... that is that I believe that if a man shows and tells you who is that you listen because when the chips are down if he cheats on or fucks over woman A then he'll do exactly the same to you.

I've seen this happen in workplaces and social settings a million times. A man behaves like a prick towards a woman and gets some women onside who defend him against other women and then he turns on them and fucks them over and they are all surprised because they thought they were special and immune when in fact, all along, the man in question just saw women as objects he can fuck over and they were not in any way exempt from this.

Take a step back and see how this plays out because I don't think anything that's happening is an accident or coincidence.

Interesting point.

I haven't ever seen any 'cyberbullying' on KF, maybe a little good-natured teasing and if you have a problem with that then you really need to grow a thicker skin.

Or, perhaps you need glasses.

Well yeah...that'll be because the site owner included in his statement.

Are you saying that TRAs WON'T target Mumsnet or Ovarit? Because they have already tried haven't they?

No. Thats not what I'm saying. This board and the site has already been targeted. What makes you think Kf was first?

My reply was to TheInebriati

Nevertheless, my "already tried" was about this site.

But neither Mumsnet or Ovarit is anything like Kf.

In the obvious sense, no - Mumsnet is a board that allows discussions on a very wide range of subjects, including a lot of innocuous chit-chat. Most of its users are mothers. It has a set of guidelines and a team of moderators to make sure they're adhered to. KF, on the other hand is like the wild west.

The one respect in which they're similar is that they both draw attention to the tactics of people who want to abuse children. KF does so in much more depth because it appears not to be bound by legal constraints. And the posters on KF may have different motivations from MN users for doing so. But imagine if you had an interest in abusing children - then both MN and KF are both sites you would try to close down.

The other important similarity is that they're independent sites. If independent sites can be forced off the internet by third parties, then all independent sites are in trouble.

Ovarit themselves is an independent refuge for women driven off of Reddit. Independent thought is already extremely suppressed in major platforms, but at the minute it's still theoretically possible to have independent platforms, even though you end up with greatly limited visibility.

If even that's removed...

TW - suicide

Here is the Twitter thread posted by 'Near' (real name, Dave) linking KF to Near's suicide.

twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408940057235312640?s=20

Listen to the YouTube livestream, they address the suicide claims. At least one is unverified and there is a rumour that the guy Fawkes his own death. There is a lot of detail about this including what country he is likely now in.

The other 2 had serious issues going on outside in real life, one mentioned KF in aossong and his husband actually mage a statement asking people to stop spreading rumours that his suicide was anything to do with KF.

Don't believe everything you hear or read it the moral here I think. If you've done things to be featured on KF, or any gossip site, then you've got a vested interest in trying to cast it in as bad a light as possible. Especially if them shining sunlight on your activities is preventing you from freely carrying on 'interacting' with underage children.

Another thought about free speech occurs to me and this is that just because speech is free does not mean that, in a capitalist society, anyone is bound to promote that speech or support it. So, in the old days, a publisher was not bound to publish your book. In this world, a website host is perfectly at liberty not to host your website. They cannot be forced to do so.

Some aspects of KF can be defended/justified and some absolutely cannot. I think some posters here are leaning more towards the former and, to some degree, overlooking the latter. This thread is going to be mined to within an inch of its life by trans activists and it will be very difficult to respond to how they represent what this says "about MN as a whole" without one's points being drowned out by accusations of "you're supporting XYZ".

Don't believe everything you hear or read it the moral here I think.

Including the claims made in your post, of course... :)

criminal activity is not covered by free speech.

So there is absolutely no hypocrisy in being against CSA and for free speech.

kiwi farms won’t even allow that awful cartoon stuff (‘Lolicon’) that Deviant Art, Discord and Reddit are littered with.

Julie Terryberry’s thread has been moved to a historical lol cows section and I don’t know where it was originally but similar topics/people in similar situations (eg Funeral1996/rotten2thecore1996*) are usually in the majority female members area of the site.

I suspect a lot has changed over there since women started getting booted off social media en masse, so maybe in 2016 almost all the members were male? No way to know really, what with anon posting (same as here, where males often say they are female)
you can’t really judge a site by what was posted on it 6 years ago - if that was the case Reddit would still be a brilliant place for GC feminists to gather.

internet culture is moving extremely fast - I find lurking KF invaluable as I have teenagers and it’s as if they inhabit a completely different online universe to me. KF is somewhere I can learn about the internet world they are exposed to.

(*I chose to use this ‘lolcows’ Internet handles rather than her real name)

TW - suicide

YetAnotherSpartacus, this is getting a bit ridiculous.

I know you don't like KF, but your level of credulity about allegations against them is reaching either dishonesty or wilful blindness. Taking that Near "suicide" thing as gospel, um, no. You need to dig into this further. Unless you are privy to information no-one else is, there is as yet no evidence he's even dead.

In this world, a website host is perfectly at liberty not to host your website. They cannot be forced to do so.

You are totally misunderstanding this. Null is not trying to force anyone to "host" his website. He's trying to run HIS OWN website.

Agreed nauticant - I didn't know the ins and outs of KF as I've only been on a few threads, which were nasty enough but ultimately harmless in terms of 'doing' anything. Stuff about suicide is horrible.

Nothing about KF is 'good-natured teasing', the language I've seen is vile.