Someone explain to Sara about sharing loos

[pink85]

I'm so tired. They really don't get it or understand why women don't wanna share with men. The second we metaphorically and actually open our spaces for them to use too we're putting ourselves at risk but people like her care more about someones feelings being hurt than real women potentialy being attacked (and not necessarily by TW but by any man) because its okay for anyone to say they're whatever sex they want and we all have to grin and bear it. Link to her tweet: Twitter

Some of the toilets at the V and A cafe are like this, the floors are awash with piss, they are like a midden. Funnily enough the toilets that are still designated as female only are perfectly clean.

Oh dear, sounds as though if his “thing down there” gets hard at the sight of women changing this person needs to stay in the mens changing room WHERE HE BELONGS.

Trans rights are male rights.
That’s all we need to know.

Women should know our place, barefoot pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink.

FUCK THAT. :

I haven't seen this in our new loos. Sanitary towels lying about is another matter. I feel women are marking their territory with used sanitary towels. Don't know about anyone else but I don't find used sanitary towels attractive to look at and every time I have been to the news loos I've seen this, seems weird to me.

This is basically the complete opposite - the "not me" movement.

Not quite clear to me why you'd want to be part of an anti-solidarity/anti-empathy movement, unless actively trying to disrupt, but they do seem to be all the rage these days.

(Thinking of the bisexual on the other thread apparently utterly baffled that anyone could be a lesbian, given that she isn't).

YY.

United Nations say that single sex toilets in schools and work are safer for women and girls because of the risks to us

how come that risk changes in this country?

There are two rather disturbing conclusions we can draw about what they think.

Or alternatively, she's an opinionated woman who disagrees with you.

She disagrees in the way that she wants to post a faux ingenuous Twitter thread about it which will get lots of the right people's approval. I'm opinionated too, and that is my opinion as to her motives, because I've seen it many times from members of my own sex. She doesn't get to give my consent to males in female spaces by proxy.

When my DD was 11 she went into the female public toilet in the middle of the day and there were 3 women in there taking drugs.

They mugged her and stole her phone and money and it really scared her.

That's awful, I'm sorry. It would be even less safe with men there too though.

Well males are capable of rape so if you wondering how much worse it could be.....

I see plenty of disgusting women's toilets so don't really see the issue. It's good that the women's toilets weren't grim, but plenty are.

Women's toilets are mostly ok, all mixed sex ones are rank.

I have been to venues where they don't have separate sex toilets and as cis woman I prefer them. The general hand wash areas have had CCTV and the cubicles are floor to ceiling (that's not to say they all are). If someone wants to assault you they will do it regardless, I've had a cis man walk into the women's toilet behind me without anyone batting an eyelid. Instead I've had to draw attention to them

Can confirm, a trans woman being there would clearly be worse than junkies mugging & beating her

I don't mean that incident, I mean for every woman and girl in general. Interesting that you got "trans woman" from "men" though. I believe we are talking about "gender neutral" mixed sex spaces as well.

have been to venues where they don't have separate sex toilets and as cis woman I prefer them.

That's nice for you. As a non "cis", non trans woman, I don't.

you cannot identify who is a genuine TW who wants to go about their life peacefully and who is a predatory man

This is absolutely it for me. I am not transphobic. I have massive sympathy for genuine Transfolk as their lives must be extremely difficult. I am Creepyman-phobic. Anyone who thinks Pervy men won't manipulation situations to get access to vulnerable women is bloody naïve. Some men structure their entire lives/careers around getting access to situations in which they can get their rocks off.

But how did you know it was a "cis man" and not a woman?

But how did you know it was a "cis man" and not a woman?

Well, quite.

The issues for me with making toilets mixed sex are:

A) male and female changing rooms are not policed and never have been but societal norms mean that if there is a womens facility then men feel awkward using it and women feel comfortable identifying and telling on any predatory men who abuse the facility. By breaking those norms women will not be able to call out the predatory males, the ones who put phone under the stall to take photos, or make perverted comments to girls in the space, or wank in the stalls with the door slightly open.

B) it starts with changing rooms and toilets, the 'low hanging fruit' but once Female spaces there have been abolished the argument moves to more sensitive spaces. Do we really think it's ok for male bodied people to be in womens rape crisis therapy groups or womens domestic violence refuges or locked in a cell with a biological female in prison or sharing a room with a biological female in a psychiatric facility?

C) it's a cheap fob off with no effort to make it safe. These retailers and venues are opening up the changing rooms/toilets without making any changes to mitigate the additional risk. They aren't putting in solid floor to ceiling doors with locks. Being 100% honest how many times have you walked into a fitting room and been able to see a woman half dressed through the edge of the curtain? I know I have, now being 100% honest, when you are trying on a bra in M&S, mostly naked, do you want Random Harry (who may or may not be about to have a wank in the stall next door while fondling a pair of Jade green lacy brazilian knickers) to see you? And you only have to have a look at the knicker reviews on the M&S website to know that there's more than 1 or 2 Random Harry's out there!

I've had to use mixed sex (not single occupancy ones, proper mixed sex) toilets before and when there were men in there I just didn't feel comfortable. I'm not going to train myself out of my self preservation instinct. No, I didn't see any penises but I still didn't feel as safe as I do in the ladies'.

The other thing is, as I've got older, I've become more and more aware of the varied and exciting opportunities men will take to be creeps and just how creepy they can get. I'm only in my mid 20s but I've heard some things that make my skin crawl which I'd have had no idea about aged 18.

The other thing is, as I've got older, I've become more and more aware of the varied and exciting opportunities men will take to be creeps and just how creepy they can get.

They really can.

Exactly. And all they would have to do is say you were wrong in any case. And that you are a transphobic bigot if you don't agree.

Do people really not see the problem with all this??

They pretend not to. You'd have to be a zealot or pretty dense not to.