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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Edinburgh Fringe comic spat on and shunned by colleagues as a 'transphobe' for show about women

518 replies

JanieAllen · 17/08/2022 13:33

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/edinburgh-fringe-comic-spat-shunned-27762754

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
littlbrowndog · 24/08/2022 14:25

HouseOfGoldandBones · 24/08/2022 13:29

So far you've suggested that "transphobia" is knowing the definition of woman & not laughing at an unfunny comedian.

I'm getting the impression that you're just an angry man who enjoys writing silly things on the Internet.

🤣🤣🤣🙌🏽🙌🏽💪

TheClogLady · 24/08/2022 14:32

Archive has three snap shots of Ives’ Twitter.

archive.ph/5lXsz

archive.ph/DcT9Z

This seems to be the most relevant one: archive.ph/5JCEz

WanOvaryKenobi · 24/08/2022 14:33

viques · 24/08/2022 12:35

Isn’t that what the RC church used to do / does with troublesome priests who are caught fiddling with their parishioners. It’s a dangerous and dishonest way to deal with behaviour that you know is wrong. It gives the behaviour legitimacy, it gives the person involved the sense that they are the one being victimised. By simply moving the worker to another venue they are colluding in the behaviour.

I made that exact point in my teeth spitting response.

WanOvaryKenobi · 24/08/2022 14:35

Helleofabore · 24/08/2022 14:24

Right. Let's compare

From the Scotman on Elaine Miller.

www.scotsman.com/arts-and-culture/edinburgh-festivals/fringe-comedy-reviews-elaine-miller-logs-extreme-nonsense-peter-buckley-hill-consignia-daniel-downie-obie-3351737

The Fringe is the kind of place where a woman in an interactive vulva costume takes her audience on a wander round the Old Town in a twenty strong bubble filled with as heady a mix of laughter, amazement, admiration and anger as you will ever experience. Elaine Miller () is as ferocious as she is funny and every stop on her walka-talkabout is packed with extraordinary and fascinating facts wrapped in earthy language and laughs. We get medical misogyny and the monster that was J Marion Sims, suffragettes, the urinary leash and the toilets in Nicolson Square, why The Vagina Monologues were wrong and everything you ever wanted to know about your (and anyone else's) squidgy bits. By the time we reach Greyfriar's Bobby and Elaine is sticking her pubic hair on (accidentally dislodging her clitoris as she does so), we would follow her anywhere, learning and laughing. Take your daughters, take your sons. Take your husband.

This is the review for Ives from Chortle strangely just tweeted in the past hour.... like they felt the need to do some kind of PR or something...

www.chortle.co.uk/review/2022/08/24/51604/jen_ives%3A_peak_trans?rss#

Jen Ives opens her show with an explosive burst of energy that takes the audience by surprise, setting the mood for an unpredictable and at times wildly entertaining hour. Ives is a fearless performer, keeping the audience on their toes and constantly changing the vibe and dynamic of the show.

The opening moments also allow her to make a sharp point about the ever-changing rules and laws affecting trans women. We get a glimpse into Ives’s upbringing and her relationship with her father, with the London Dungeon making an unexpected narrative appearance.

The spectre of Graham Linehan, the Father Ted writer and scourge of the trans community, looms large over this show. He and Ives crossed paths at the LGB Alliance conference last year, and he has regularly attacked her on his blog, some of which are read verbatim to the audience.

Ives jokes about the ‘good old days’ before the base and basic way trans women are treated in the culture wars. A throwaway line suggests she is tired of discussing gender critical beliefs, but feels an expectation on her to do so. Ives worries that the comedy industry isn’t as progressive as her previous workplace, but that story takes a further twist.

Sections of Peak Trans still feel like work in progress, and the show is far from slick, but this doesn’t make it any less engaging. Ives talks to the audience throughout, asking questions, testing attitudes and asking sometimes awkward questions – for example about porn preferences – acting as a segue into the next section that enables her to share more of her own experiences.

There’s a quick routine about JK Rowling – again taken in an unexpected direction due to the Harry Potter tattoos sported by Ives’ flatmate. And then the show’s unforgettable finale manages to say everything at once through an outrageous piece of physical comedy that ensures she has the last laugh.

Parts of this show is available from past shows on YouTube, and are just not getting the laughs from the audience.

I know which I would go to if I were up in Edinburgh and it is not the one that 'still feels like a work in progress' and an opportunity for this person to take their beef with other's out in public.

Belter of a comment her.

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2022 14:38

TheClogLady · 24/08/2022 14:32

Archive has three snap shots of Ives’ Twitter.

archive.ph/5lXsz

archive.ph/DcT9Z

This seems to be the most relevant one: archive.ph/5JCEz

Ah thank you! Someone has obviously had a word, be it the venue, event organisers or agent.

I see the 'defacement' of posters is actually stickering. Which I can understand if it upset Jen, and I wouldn't personally have done but I was expecting something worse, like insults, slurs and bad language, graffitti etc

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2022 14:41
  • I wouldn't have personally done that (the stickering).
IcakethereforeIam · 24/08/2022 14:58

I feel a little sorry for Jen Ives, it must be a miserable experience to have a show not do so well. If a person you, rightly or wrongly*, feel distaste for has a show, at the same time, in the same venue, getting rave reviews....well, that's just rubbing salt in the wound. Jen should have a drink with Elaine after their shows, it would probably be cheering.

If the Fringe becomes to woman unfriendly, we should organise our own and call it 'the Minge'.

*definitely wrongly.

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2022 15:12

Yes stand-up comedy is a tough gig.

I LOVE "The Minge" ha ha

LaughingPriest · 24/08/2022 15:14

So far you've suggested that "transphobia" is knowing the definition of woman & not laughing at an unfunny comedian.

DadJoke also implied that Elaine's statement that woman used to mean Adult Human Female but now "includes people who are born male but have a sense of femininity" is transphobic.

You can't win, because they dishonestly move the goalposts and refuse to define the words they use.

Sazzasez · 24/08/2022 15:15

Guy promoting the bs, having been caught out saying things that cannot be true, changing his story & accidentally revealing he didn’t witness any of it, has deleted his tweets, stating he stands by every word of it.

mobile.twitter.com/ycove/status/1562430867343278084

CousinKrispy · 24/08/2022 15:26

Wow that Jen Ives clip is very unfunny ... not because Jen is trans, but just because it's awkward and dull.

But I see what you mean, Icake, it must feel awful to know your show is doing poorly (so few laughs in that clip) and it could be easy to want to cast blame on another, more successful, performer.

IcakethereforeIam · 24/08/2022 15:40

In Jen's tweets that a pp put up, there are a few references to eating pot noodle. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but Jen seems to have gained a little weight and, mostly this, pot noodles are something you eat alone.

I definitely, hopefully, reading too much into it.

Kudos to Jen for having the bottle to get on stage, and to keep getting on stage. I think it'd be more interesting if, having made it personal anyway, they dialled down the 'comedy' and talked more of themselves and their life.

I wish I could get to the Fringe (never been) and see Elaine. I'd love to walk round Edinburgh with a giant, ambulatory vulva. Wow, that given my mind's eye a vision I won't soon forget....not my vulva.

Sazzasez · 24/08/2022 16:02

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2022 15:12

Yes stand-up comedy is a tough gig.

I LOVE "The Minge" ha ha

“Mirth at the Minge!”

RhannionKPSS · 24/08/2022 16:55

Maybe Elanie should call her show for next year Minge at the Fringe?

Helleofabore · 24/08/2022 17:52

I am still waiting for dadjokes evidence of transphobia from Elaine Miller.

Because it seems that the assertion that 'I notice you’ve kept quiet about Jen Ives, also at Edinburgh who received transphobic abuse, and bunch of transphobes booked out the front row and sat in silence with their arms crossed.' has now been withdrawn by the person trying to organise hate being directed towards Elaine's show because of truly vile transphobia linked to Elaine through the tweets copied on page 12 (now deleted).

So, if dadjoke is prepared to make such accusations as they did back upthread based on an unsubstantiated tweet which was proven to be ludicrous, maybe more ludicrous than the show based on the clips of the content I have seen, then I doubt there will be anything other than 'she talks about female body parts' and centres female.

But I will continue to wait. It might come through.

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2022 18:38

Helleofabore · 24/08/2022 17:52

I am still waiting for dadjokes evidence of transphobia from Elaine Miller.

Because it seems that the assertion that 'I notice you’ve kept quiet about Jen Ives, also at Edinburgh who received transphobic abuse, and bunch of transphobes booked out the front row and sat in silence with their arms crossed.' has now been withdrawn by the person trying to organise hate being directed towards Elaine's show because of truly vile transphobia linked to Elaine through the tweets copied on page 12 (now deleted).

So, if dadjoke is prepared to make such accusations as they did back upthread based on an unsubstantiated tweet which was proven to be ludicrous, maybe more ludicrous than the show based on the clips of the content I have seen, then I doubt there will be anything other than 'she talks about female body parts' and centres female.

But I will continue to wait. It might come through.

I set up the chairs and picnic a while ago. It's like I'm psychic or something

Helleofabore · 24/08/2022 18:44

I have wine. And chocolate.

PSKeyboardwarrior · 24/08/2022 18:49

@Helleofabore @ScreamingMeMe

I've experienced at least two birthdays since I first started asking 'what exactly has x said that's transphobic'. To silence. It's usually JKR so it's refreshing to get someone else!

LatinDreamer · 24/08/2022 18:50

Count me in too, there's a pastel de nata waiting with my name on it.

Helleofabore · 24/08/2022 18:50

Better make sure we have a bottle shop handy then.

RhannionKPSS · 24/08/2022 19:02

I’ve got a bottle opener & some cider if that’s any help?

IcakethereforeIam · 24/08/2022 19:04

I've just unearthed some potatoes.

PeriodBro · 24/08/2022 19:10

LatinDreamer · 24/08/2022 18:50

Count me in too, there's a pastel de nata waiting with my name on it.

<barges rudely past everyone to get to the custardy tarts>

Waitwhat23 · 24/08/2022 19:41

Ooh, the talk about custardy tarts has made me crave a vanilla slice.

Or something sweet and cinnamony, covered in icing.

nocoolnamesleft · 24/08/2022 20:30

Am I the only one frantically googling to see if there's any way, they can 1)get to Edinburgh whilst it's still showing, 2)get a ticket, and 3)find somewhere to stay? Unfortunately the trains are looking very iffy.

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