Edinburgh Fringe comic spat on and shunned by colleagues as a 'transphobe' for show about women

[JanieAllen]

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/edinburgh-fringe-comic-spat-shunned-27762754

By your own standard dadjoke, want to link up your posts denouncing the current spate of protestors who have been turning up to violently intimidate females talking about their rights on other threads?

And what about Ives, has Ives been denouncing the tactics of the violent protestors there protesting on behalf of trans people?

I might have missed all that…

and bunch of transphobes booked out the front row and sat in silence with their arms crossed.
So a Fringe performer is upset that people ... checks notes... bought tickets to the show (and thus helped cover room costs).

You assume "transphobes", but could it just be that Ives is simply not funny? (As is true of so many Fringe "comedians")

I notice you’ve kept quiet about Jen Ives, also at Edinburgh who received transphobic abuse, and bunch of transphobes booked out the front row and sat in silence with their arms crossed.

Care to explain what this transphobic abuse was?

If people were actual transphobes, why would they pay to go see a show by a trans person? 😂

Since when is not laughing at a comedy performance a sin? Trans person needs to grow a thicker skin. This is the Edinburgh fringe. There's loads of acts I've been to over the years that I've not found particularly funny.

So you think that her audience deserves abuse? Even though her show has nothing to do with being gender critical? Do you only go to shoes where you agree with performers on every single topic? How do you even leave the house?

A front row not laughing is 'transphobic'? Ridiculous.

I considered seeing Ives' show as I like to engage with all kinds of art and opinions. I did not in the end. Why?

The publicity videos were all Ives screaming and smashing bottles on stage. Not a single joke. Just the kind of thing that first year drama students would come up with then cringe about next term.

And you know what? I hope Ives' audience sees it in peace. Which is more than can be said for you.

Have you even seen either of these performances?

Your disdain is showing.

Went to see a show at the Counting House years ago which was utterly dire - Uni students doing a shite version of the 'Loadsamoney!' character. Also saw The Mighty Boosh before they got famous and they led the audience through the streets - we escaped. Some of the stuff at the Fringe is brilliant and some of it is awful.

Elaine got an elusive 5* review from the Scotsman. What what I've heard, Jen is used to doing 20 - 30 min club sets and this is their first go at an hour long show. It may be that their material simply doesn't translate into a longer show.

It's not compulsory to laugh.

You can't pre-book seats, so the hyperbole about booking out the front row for JI just shows you pulled this nugget from someone who'd never even been to the fringe.

Usually people mill in and fill the middle first, it's hard to guarantee getting front row seats, without showing up really early. It's just daft to think anyone would buy a ticket and queue for an hour to make a "not laughing" protest. It's much more likely the front row were giving off "don't pull me up" vibes or just thought the show was awful.

Sitting and not laughing is abuse now? Ok...

If a trans woman politely asks questions on a thread and is repeatedly ignored, is that the digital equivalent to "sitting in silence with arms crossed"?

If a tree falls in a forest and no-one is there to hear the crash, do we safely assume that tree was transphobic anyway?

Jen has been shown in the past to be a bit of a provocateur who is not exactly truthful, so I'm gonna take these claims with a pinch of salt atm.

So now not laughing at trans people is transphobic.

Top marks for consistency.

It's much more likely the front row were giving off "don't pull me up" vibes or just thought the show was awful.

Oh yes I try to avoid the front row at comedy shows so the comedian doesn't pick on me, and will give them the "do NOT bother me" look otherwise.

Wan

I went and had a look at YouTube clips after reading your post.

This was the first one. If this is a preview, it is not getting many laughs as it is.

Maybe dadjoke can watch it and tell us what is funny there. Because if that was the best that chortle could find to promote Ives, then that says a great deal.

Jen Ives went to a women's event to be deliberately provacative, filmed parts of it and then lied about the filming but that's ok because reasons but sitting in and not laughing is transphobic abuse. Got it.

It's not hard to get front row seats- if anything they fill last so talking about queuing for an hour is an exaggeration too.

I've no idea if Dad Joke's anecdote is true or not. I sat in the middle of the second row at a show recently in stony silence- not to make a point as it wasn't the least bit funny. In 2019 the same happened. The performer noticed and made it worse for himself by trying to engage with me and being completely ignored. It would be off putting to notice a complete lack of audience engagement but it would be difficult to know if it were deliberate or simply because the show isn't engaging.

There are 3 reviews here.

tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/jen-ives-peak-trans

Watching that clip of Ives. So not funny

and you can’t book seats at the fringe. The ushers tell you which place to sit mostly

I notice you’ve kept quiet about Jen Ives, also at Edinburgh who received transphobic abuse, and bunch of transphobes booked out the front row and sat in silence with their arms crossed.

Well, DadJoke's line was funnier than any of Jen Ives'.

Thanks for the link TheLassWiADelicateAir

3 reviews and one of them was ’I was looking forward to this as a supporter of LGBTQI + people no matter what they do as they need that extra support as they are the most oppressed folks in the country. The problem and I feel really awful saying this as an ally is...this is just camp..catty, caustic and a bit odd bit not in a good way. I am so so sorry but I didn't find your show funny..soz babez.’

Compared to the same sites reviews for Elaine’s show. Now Elaine’s show might not be for everyone, but her reviews are certainly overwhelmingly better than Ives’.

As far as I can see, dadjoke either saw the show or is referring to this tweet.

twitter.com/ycove/status/1562150167343661056?s=21&t=GGRi83o_VvklDOtv7BV4sA

I would say the proof will be in the
independent professional reviews.

‘And how long can Jen get away with taking maternity leave from work?’

Actually, that is quite sharp. Jen gets one point for that line.

The irony, of course, no woman could make a similar joke because women would be 'punching down' to point to the fact that a male can't be pregnant.

Women can, as Helle said, be fired for being pregnant, and face all the concomitant health issues and life changes resulting from said pregnancy. As ever, we carry and will always carry that burden. But only Jen can make a joke about how males can't actually be pregnant.

How funny.

Sorry. The tweet is this for those not on twitter.

from Yiannis Cove

Please amplify this 🧵: One of the kindest and funniest people I know, Jen Ives, has been dealing with some truly vile transphobia during her debut Edinburgh Fringe show. Posters vandalised, flyers ruined, and then this week it escalate

A group of people bought up an entire front row during her show that was being live streamed for Next Up and sat silent, arms crossed the whole time to intimidate her. Obviously, this would get to anyone

She has someone performing in the room next to her at the same time who is doing a show about womanhood who has had an article published this week complaining she's being accused of transphobia for using free speech and obviously it's drawn more attention toward Jen's show

Why the venue placed them next to each other at the same time is baffling. Jen does not deserve to be going through this regardless. We need to show her our support. There are some actual hate crimes occurring here

and another tweet saying ‘go see the show and support Ives to stop the transphobes’.

Sorry I forgot to email you the Fringe Guidance Notes. Doh!

Here they are.

1 - Laughing at trans people is transphobic.
2 - Not laughing at trans people is also transphobic.
3 - Mentioning Jen Ives is transphobic.
4 - Also, not mentioning Jen Ives is transphobic.

I think that's the crux of it. Now run off and play and for the love of COD, try not to be transphobic today, please. I've got those notes laminated now and they cannot be changed.

Another mumsnetter commented on Ives’ show on one of the other Elaine Miller threads. I’ve screenshotted it for simplicity.

if this thread has been hijacked into talking about trans comedians, then I would like to point out that Ives is not the only trans performer at this years fringe. I saw Andrew O’Neil’s previous solo show last year (friend of friends situation) and 85% of it was really good, with the last 15 minutes descending into student style ranty politics nonsense unbecoming for a person of Andrew’s age.

Andrew is doing two shows at the Fringe (and I admit, I did find myself wondering who ‘they’ are on reading the second flier, before remembering they is Andrew theyself)

so it anyone wants to see a trans comedian who is actually funny at least some of the time, I recommend Andrew, as Jen seems a bit crap.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=BJECxiMgvK8

Both Jen and Andrew are on Chortle’s list of ten trans comedians appearing on this year’s Fringe:

www.chortle.co.uk/features/2022/07/20/51202/ten_trans_and_non-binary_comedians_at_this_years_fringe

Yet … Ives got one thing right. Ives obviously cannot feel empathy with the content in that clip, and from their actions so far.

Certainly no empathy for their own father.

Oh shit. I forgot 2.

1 - Laughing at trans people is transphobic.
2 - Not laughing at trans people is also transphobic.
3 - Mentioning Jen Ives is transphobic.
4 - Also, not mentioning Jen Ives is transphobic.
5 - Performing in the next room to a trans person is transphobic
6 - And by default, not performing in the next room to a trans person will also prove later in the thread to be transphobic.

'vile transphobia...

A group of people bought up an entire front row during her show that was being live streamed for Next Up and sat silent, arms crossed the whole time to intimidate her.'

Has anyone reported this hate crime?

Spitting on people for holding legally protected views = acceptable, cos she's transphobic. Not misogyny, just social justice in action.

Folding arms = vile transphobia

Right, cos that makes sense.