What do people mean by “identify as”?

[StillHappy]

The phrase is used a lot, but I can’t find any common definition of it.

It seems to be used to mean “I’d like to be”, or “I’d like to be treated as though I was”, but then some people also seem to use it to mean “all objective measures show I am not, but I really am, as I say I am.”

Is it any of these, none, or some mixture?

I’m a woman, but don’t think I identify as one. I can just see that I am from historic events (namely the children that I gave birth to.)

What is someone who appears not to be a woman asserting it claiming when they say they identify as one?

Is it a different class of claim to, let’s say, someone claiming to be a sensitive caring lover, who isn’t, or a woman identifying as the missing Russian princess, daughter of the last Tsar?

Is anyone who uses this language willing to flesh it out?

I’ve currently got trousers in. Does that mean I’m identifying as a man? I had a dress on earlier, so does that mean I was then identifying as a woman. So Does that mean I non-binary, or gender fluid? And the dress was blue, not pink, so was I
identifying as male (wearing blue) and female (wearing a dress) at the same time?

I think it’s a way of indicating, in relation to identity categories (mostly gender, sexuality and race) how you regard yourself and would like others to refer to you, where there is more than one reasonable possibility. For example, a person with mixed heritage can identify in different ways. They might or might not identify as black, or as a person of colour. Equally, in relation to sexuality, a woman who has in the past had relationships with men but has only had relationships with women for the last ten years might identify as bisexual or pansexual, or might now identify as gay.

Right, so you’re not actually happy with your own phrasing either! It’s the concept of transgenderism rather than the actual words used. Which is absolutely fine, but don’t dress it up as being unable to understand fairly common terms.

to me , when I see ‘identify as’ , I substitute ‘claim to be’….which may or may not be true, and if it is true, you might as well say ‘am’ , otherwise, it means ‘pretend to be’.

Identify as means. An attempt to deceive.

It has a perfectly useful purpose, it's just been extended far beyond its reach.

It is hard to define what it really means.

For instance, some people in the states "identify as" Italian or Scottish or Irish because of their (sometimes quite distant) heritage. They might take a particular interest in the culture, cuisine, language, history, dress of that country even if they have never visited it before. But I guess there still would always be a link. I'm not sure that people just choose a heritage and adopt it without a justifiable reason.

Great question @StillHappy I have only recently picked up that when filling in formal documents/feedback etc. it no longer asks me if I am male or female but what I identify as.
Like you, I have no idea. I am a woman. Therefore do I identify as a woman? I guess so.

Friends DD wants to be known by a male name but wants to be referred to as they so what do they identify as? If non-binary why the male name?

As somebody who is nearing retirement age, this is all very new and I'm honestly not sure what to think. I refuse to put she/her on emails at work as it's obvious I'm a woman from my name. People seem to get very offended if you get their pronouns wrong and I personally find it all a bit precious and attention seeking.

Why the hostility at being asked to define terms.

Woman- adult human female
Female- sex class that produces ova
Male- sex class that produces sperm

See easy.

No need to attack people just because you can't define basic terms with kit turning them.into meaningless open categories.

Define what makes someone feel male without circular definitions and /or stereotypes.

Its an easy question surely

After all you cant identify as something you cant define.

In what way do you feel attacked? I’m answering the question the OP asked. I have absolutely no idea what makes people feel like a man, how could I know? I’m saying this pretence I’m not knowing how basic phrases are used is pointless.

Well, I say I have no idea but obviously subscribing to gender norms of a particular sex might make you feel more like that sex. Gender norms are ridiculous and a social construct but the next best thing to changing sex, which is impossible.

Could it be that no one feels like a man they just are if born male and grow up and become an adult human male?

If there's no criteria fir a male identity ,which there cant be as everyone's different, then the only thing they have in common with eachother is their biological make up.

No one has defined a male identity beyond stereotypes and pronouns. We can surely all.agree 4 words and a shirt and tie does not make a man?

Man/male isn't a set of feelings

Well no, it can’t be, because some people do feel like they feel like a man. You can disagree with that but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

I absolutely do agree that gender norms do not make you biologically a different sex. But they absolutely do mean you can present as a different gender.

But man just means adult human male

Its not a feeling
Its a reality

And you cant say you feel like a man without re defining what man is. And this definition is not forth coming. Thats the problem. The only qualifying criteria for a man is to be conceived as a male. Thats it.

Surely then the problem isn’t the definitions, it’s the forcing of male-bodied people into female spaces and vice versa?

I actually view ‘I identify as’ as the same as ‘I assume the identity of…’ and therefore the person is acknowledging they aren’t simply ‘I am’ else they’d say ‘I am’.
so ‘I identify as…’ Means ‘I’m not actually in the whole sense this person/ thing , but I’d like to be seen/ treated as this person/ thing’.
the complication when applying this to gender is that they cannot understand that it’s absolutely fine to be a male who dresses and behaves in a feminine way or even modifies their body to suit this but that this doesn’t make you a woman , it makes you a feminine male or a transperson depending how far you take it . The word ‘woman’ applies to born females and therefore anyone needing to identify as one is most definitely not one .

Hasn’t “I identify as” fallen out of fashion now in trans activist circles because it’s too easily mocked and not something actual women would ever say? If you do a search for “I identify as” on twitter the results are mainly people saying “I identify as a turnip” and various other piss-takes.

Of course the definition is an issue.

If men akd women are open categories that mean nothing and anyone can identify into them then bow do you keep track of anything . How do you plan services akd funding etc wotj.mumbers that are false.

And how can anyone claim to fight for their rights when they don't even fight for a way to define themselves.

But it’s that mixing that you take issue with, and you’re right, in my opinion. But saying ‘I am pretending to be…’ instead of ‘I identify as…’ doesn’t change that. The issue is mixed sex spaces that should be single sex for perfectly valid reasons.

It makes sense there, I suppose, with a meaning of “I like to think of myself as.”

That's interesting.

'where there is more than one reasonable possibility'.

the arguments come when people try to define 'reasonable', don't they?

Rachel Dolezal thought she was 'reasonable' to identify as black - some people think it is 'reasonable' to identify as the opposite sex.

Pretending we believe it is the issue. It can only be true of we pretend none of the words mean anything beyond what people decide they mean.to suit them.

The truth always comes out. Everyone's just to scared to be the one who says it.

Akd that harms the very people you think you are " being kind " too

If you pretended to believe I could really fly i.hope someone.would tell me I couldn't. Preferably before I jump from.a multi story car park. But these days they'd likely just call the ground a bigot for killing.me.

But you don’t think that either, because you don’t want people to say ‘I’m pretending to be female’. It’s the concept you object to, not the phrasing they use.

The objection to that is that the person saying it doesn’t have access to what that feeling is. It’s like a person who has never had caffeine saying that they feel like after the first cup of coffee of the morning.

I don’t know what it means to feel female, only what it means to be me, so I don’t even understand the claim that a man can feel it.

How can he feel it if I can’t?