What do people mean by “identify as”?

[StillHappy]

The phrase is used a lot, but I can’t find any common definition of it.

It seems to be used to mean “I’d like to be”, or “I’d like to be treated as though I was”, but then some people also seem to use it to mean “all objective measures show I am not, but I really am, as I say I am.”

Is it any of these, none, or some mixture?

I’m a woman, but don’t think I identify as one. I can just see that I am from historic events (namely the children that I gave birth to.)

What is someone who appears not to be a woman asserting it claiming when they say they identify as one?

Is it a different class of claim to, let’s say, someone claiming to be a sensitive caring lover, who isn’t, or a woman identifying as the missing Russian princess, daughter of the last Tsar?

Is anyone who uses this language willing to flesh it out?

Yes @Somanysocks exactly.

I identify as = I pretend to be ...

"feel more like than the thing I actually am" ?

I don't thnk that that can work as, taking the male / female thing, no male can know what it would feel like to be female. They can't really even know what a male feeling is, as none of us know which of our feelings are shared with our sex and not shared by the opposite sex.

It means 'I consider myself to be, in spite of solid evidence to the contrary'. If you actually were something, there would be no need to identify as it.

I identify as a woman = I believe in and agree with gender stereotypes and think that my preferences are most aligned with the stereotypes most associated with women.

Failing to acknowledge that plenty of women don't fit those stereotypes, which are often outdated and almost always superficial.

I'm a woman because I'm an adult human female, not because I personally choose to wear make up.

There are some grey areas it works.

For example, I have a chronic condition and could identify as disabled. I don't yet feel I want to. I am limited by my condition, but don't feel it's enough to classify, most of the time.

I think you could be of one ethnicity and be born in a different place, yet identify as one, the other or both. My children are half welsh but do not identify as anything but English.

There are places where the term helps you to express which part of your identity best describes who you are.

What you should never do, is identify as something you are not.

To be more accurate:

I identify as a woman = I believe in and agree with gender stereotypes and think that my preferences are most aligned with the stereotypes most associated with women even though I am biologically male and cannot know what it is like to live as a woman; because 'living as a woman' isn't simply appropriating the stereotypes women are expected to live up to by the patriarchy.

And they fail to acknowledge that you can't 'transition' out of male entitlement, so when we share the definition of 'woman', they call us transphobic. Despite us being women.

OP your DH isn’t non binary, he’s a man with a variety of interests and skills.

Suggesting he’s non binary because he’s good at cooking and child care reinforces patriarchal stereotypes: “oh he can’t be a man if he does/likes that…”

Other than that, I think your line of questioning is really enlightening.

That was slightly tongue-in-cheek. My view is that if you accept the common definition of non-binary, then everyone is.

Your mistake is thinking that this movement thinks that any of the words or phrases it uses need definitions.

Yeah, both dh and I must be non binary as I cut the grass and he does most of the cooking

My view is that if you accept the common definition of non-binary, then everyone is.

Absolutely. I wish people would stop deciding that things which are just common-or-garden personality traits, taste preferences or outdated sex-based stereotypes merit classifying as whole separate categories of human. It's such a teenagery thing, this need to constantly define yourself as being part of some new and special group. It's understandable that teenagers do it - teens were ever thus. But that's no reason for adults to indulge it and join in.

I identify as = I wrongly think I have a choice in whether I am

It’s really interesting that people trying to answer this, are unable to. As you say OP, they are just repeating the phrase in a sentence without explaining what it means. Unless pp really thinks being male is nothing more than a name and clothing choices, which I find hard to believe they actually do.

I identify as = look how special and different I am

Interesting question OP.

I identify as X = I know I'm not X in reality, but I believe I know (through my own imagination) what X is, and I feel a kinship with my imaginings such that that I am X.

Nb, that the individual is identifying with their own imaginings so closely is obviously unsurprising.

Also, people who state they are 'non-binary' have by that statement just created a binary between themselves and 'binary' people, so clearly are not really non-binary.

What would you prefer it to be instead? It’s not language that I use but I think it’s fairly obvious that it means ‘I want to pretend I’m the opposite sex’.

I think of it as ‘pretend’. As the old joke about Virgin and extra virgin olive oil goes ‘you either is or you ain’t’.

As per a comment I just made on another thread, I think that the language shift is a deliberate attempt to make it more difficult to argue against certain propositions. If you can't even say what "identify as" means then you can't argue against it, and its very shape-shifting essence means a naive "I'm not saying I real am that" can be adopted at times while at others it can absolutely be used as justification for claiming to be that thing.

A more honest description, if I am reading it right (and accept that I may not be) would be one of these;

Like to think of myself as
Like to try to live as though I am
Enjoy telling myself that I am.

Yes, they all mean the same thing though.

I mean, if somebody said ‘I like to think of myself as female’ rather than ‘I identify as female’, would your response be any different?

Er, what?

They clearly don't, and definitely don't mean the same as people currently use "identify as", which seems much closer to them saying "I am" or "you must treat me as."

It's not only the dropping of the imperative or absolute, though, my suggestions make clear that it refers to what you can do to make someone feel comfortable, as opposed to being a statement of what they "really are."

This is maybe what is mnost confusing with teh whole idea, a phrase that clearly in standard English is close to "I feel akinship with something which I am not" has become used more as "I just know, but can never demonstrate, that I really am something that I appear not to be."

That last meaning is a big problem for others' rights.

Well yes, of course. It's the difference between someone claiming to be something that they are not and someone politely asking if you would do something a bit strange to accomodate them.

The implicit admission that "identifying as a woman" is completely different to being one would be a welcome change indeed.

So what would you say instead?

They would then have to define female.

What is female of not the sex class that produces ova and can house a pregnancy ( whether or not its possible medically to do so)

How do you feel female? What is the deciding factor?