What do people mean by “identify as”?

[StillHappy]

The phrase is used a lot, but I can’t find any common definition of it.

It seems to be used to mean “I’d like to be”, or “I’d like to be treated as though I was”, but then some people also seem to use it to mean “all objective measures show I am not, but I really am, as I say I am.”

Is it any of these, none, or some mixture?

I’m a woman, but don’t think I identify as one. I can just see that I am from historic events (namely the children that I gave birth to.)

What is someone who appears not to be a woman asserting it claiming when they say they identify as one?

Is it a different class of claim to, let’s say, someone claiming to be a sensitive caring lover, who isn’t, or a woman identifying as the missing Russian princess, daughter of the last Tsar?

Is anyone who uses this language willing to flesh it out?

As far as I can see "I identify as" = I am not

That feels like a critical part of how it’s used, no-one needs to identify as something that they actually are.

It’s clear what it means when used non-reflexively; an archeologist can identify a coin as Roman, or a victim of crime can identify the suspect as the person who attacked them, but this, the normal, common use, doesn’t match up with the new usage.

There has been a very concerted push to redefine common words in a way that makes it very difficult to discuss (for example) sex, is this phrase just another part of that; a redefinition that is known to confuse, not clarify?

Yes, it seems to be a case of wanting to be something. Identifying as something is when one is drawn to a certain characteristic or quality and self describes as said thing. The 'identification' seems to be necessary to try and place oneself in a category one is not in. A sort of self-othering?

Well the phrase " identify as" is meaningless anyway unless you can define what it is that you apparently identity as.

And if you can define what it is you identify as then chances are you cant identify as it anyway because then you'd not need to identify as anything because you'd be it, or not be it.

So its an.unecessary phrase tbh.

I have no idea what it means, and wish someone could explain it to me so I know how to answer surveys and monitoring questionnaires when they ask what gender I identify as. I did fill in a survey earlier which asked me what gender I "associate with" which confused me even more - what on earth does that mean?

Is there anyone reading who uses it themselves who could explain what it means to them?

The Paralympic netball team that were able-bodied but identified as disabled, is that any different to Jessica Yaniv identifying as a young girl?

My DH is a doctor of physics; can you “identify as” that, or does it require an award of a doctorate from a registered institution?

If you are a woman you have female chromosomes in your cells so you will always be genetically female in your DNA.

But

You might identify as a male and may even have surgery to remove your breasts

So you will never be a man due to genetics but you can 'identify' as male

That’s a difficult question. My little children don’t seem to have a gender, and my DH most definitely doesn’t.

He’s non-binary I think (likes fast cars, motorbikes, boxing, cooking and taking care of the children), and male, but doesn’t think he identifies as anything.

OK, so that is using it in a sentence, but it doesn’t say what the phrase means.

But what does identifying as a man (or woman) mean? I'm a woman and people seem to assume that I identify as a woman, but I have no idea what to identify as a woman means or what it feels like or how I'd know I identify as a woman. Therefore I can't say that I identify as a woman, or indeed as anything else, but there's never an option in surveys etc of "nothing" or "no gender" or even "don't know"

But to identify as male you need to define what male is.

Which is where it falls apart because male is the state of having chromosomes and a reproductive system that os set up to produce sperm ( whether or not that system is up and working , present but not working, or surgically removed )

So identify as is a redundant term because you are either male or you arent.

Xy chromosomes

Can women identify as women?

One situation from personal knowledge that it makes sense (to me) is for this person who I know closely. Is female. In recent years, since mid teens, asked to be called by a male name and for male pronouns to be used. Does not wish to have gender change surgery. Dresses androgynously. So he identifies as male. In my view if he became a trans man (hormones, surgery etc) he'd no longer identify as male, he would be male. But for now saying he identifies as male is accurate. I have no idea if this is how he'd see it though.

I think it’s used when the classification isn’t obvious or could be called into question and so is up the individual to clarify their personal position, such as identifying as working class, a feminist, a conservative etc.

I feel that this is another phrase that has been stolen, in the same way that feminism has been.

They cannot become male even through surgery or hormones though.

I don't identify as anything. I was born female and am a women through that. I dont identify as a woman, I just am one.

They cannot become male even through surgery or hormones though

Perhaps the phrase identify as can be defined as- the willingness of others to lie about what they see/know.

Its the only way it works without redefining all other words to a point they become meaningless and without any real definition

You are using a definition of “male” that is clearly wrong there, and still haven’t explained what “identify as” means.

I am starting to suspect that no-one who uses it is able to do so. Doesn’t that concern you, that you are using words that you seem not to understand?

Please, have a try, what does “identify as” mean?

"dress up as an approximation of, and feel good about myself when I do so"

Isn’t it shorthand for “I want you to believe / perceive me as (insert preference) in order to externally validate my inner feelings / beliefs” ?

A man can never identify as a woman. They are not a woman, they will never be a woman, and they will never know what it's like to navigate life as a biological female.

‘I’m not but I want to be treated like I am’

Does it mean 'pretending', maybe?

Great post OP. One where you can bash everybody for any opinion or insight they are willing to give.
The bashing is more interesting than the subject matter. Do please carry on.

I've not bashed anyone, but it's interesting that rather than anyone give a definition we've had several posters, you included, who have decided to just post without adding anything.

It's almost as though this is one of the subjects that you don't actually want anyone to look too closely at.