Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

[aseriesofstillimages]

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

I think if you are female and you only ever find people you perceive to be female sexually attractive, you’re a lesbian. If you subsequently discover that a person you found sexually attractive is actually not female, but to you they are still indistinguishable from any other female and you still want to shag them, you’re still a lesbian.

But if you realise they’re male by perception, ie you can see it when you couldn’t before, you probably on some level find some males attractive. Then you’re not a lesbian.

While you're busy deconstructing all that and adapting other people's words to match your thoughts, what word would you like those of us to use who want our word to mean 'biological female who is exclusively attracted to other biological females'?

Because you seem to have taken that away from us.

And because of your interesting thought experiments with the word you just confiscated and redefined to fit all the complexities and deconstructions, we're now being told

a) homosexuality isn't ok, it's exclusionary and like being racist
b) we're not welcome in the LGB communities we set up because we're homosexual, and need to get back in the closet because evil/wrong/shameful
c) we should 'learn to cope' with providing unwanted, unenjoyed sex to male people out of a sense of social duty, and 'unlearn our genital prejudices' - aka submit to conversion therapy to ensure female bodies are primarily about servicing male people's pleasure without looking for reciprocation. Which is basically an abusive dynamic from the start.

All of this has come from excitingly bending and stretching and rearranging homosexuality and lesbianism to fit non lesbian people's preferred images and agendas.

Have a lovely time with your thought experiments. Play with whatever labels and exciting word definitions you choose, have fun. Just can you please not shit on others while you do so. That's all.

I find this sort of thing really strange.
If you're not a lesbian, why try and use lesbians as a thought experiment?
If you are, why not talk about your own opinions?

It isn't logical, to my mind, to view women and (not sure of current non bannable language) transwomen as interchangeable.
If you're a transwoman, either you have a penis and testicles or you have had surgery to create the appearance of female sexual characteristics.
In the case of the latter, I can see how someone might pass as female in some limited contexts but not for the purposes of a lesbian relationship.

"Absolutist approach to lesbianism" must be the most homophobic idea I've heard of since " lesbianism is dick envy".

Yes, Blister - "if only you weren't so fascist absolutist in your lesbianism you'd realise you should give that blow job be kind..."

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

What does it mean if it doesn't mean that? @aseriesofstillimages

I don't know anyone (apart from you) who is interested in defining the theoretical edge cases of homosexuality and then forcing them onto everyone else.

But if Lesbian doesn't mean female homosexual, what is the point of the word?

Isn't it useful to have a word for lesbians? Why do we need to get rid of it?

I think had the TQ+ queer theory political movement demonstrated an ability to care about and respect other people's identities and words and cultures and groups, had they had the faintest interest in others apart from themselves and their wishes and desires, those groups would never have needed to make their boundaries clear.

This 'absolutism' criticism is rather like scolding someone for reacting negatively when you mug them.

I'm so sick of this. Words mean things. In order for words to fulfill their purpose of communicating meaning between people, words must be defined. "Lesbian" has a definition. That definition is exclusive female same sex attraction.

If you don't like that definition op, I'd say that's a you problem. The rest of us aren't about to go along with demands to change that definition.

Who'd have thought that in 2022 we'd find people trying to insist that lesbians should be open to having sex with men? Just like the old homophobes who used to insist that sex with them was all we needed to correct our sexuality.

Talk about "correcting another person’s understanding of their own identity" - in plain sight on FWR.

So to summarise. Lesbians should suck transwomen's cocks and enjoy it coz Transwomen are women. Homophobia much.

get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans

You mean when they speak/stand/walk/look at you? You start with a myth - that transwomen are indistinguishable from women, when in reality it takes seconds in real life where there aren't filters. And if you are still confused when, like over 95% of transwomen, they have a penis, then I suggest you revisit your definition of the words 'woman' and 'lesbian'.

It's doing an awful lot of heavy lifting, that "absolutist approach", isn't it? I don't have an approach, absolutist or otherwise, to my lesbianism. I would if it was an intellectual choice, a decision I'd made about a belief or a political stance, perhaps, but my lesbianism is not something I took a position on, it's my sexuality. OP's sexuality might be something s/he can make choices about, but I'd prefer it if s/he didn't attempt to prescribe the same for me.

Maybe we should come up with a word for people who can’t tell the difference between the sexes. They’re definitely a minority.

If you are ok with having sex with people of either sex then the word for that is bisexual. From Bi - meaning two.

Hope that helps your confusion. There's alot of it about these days.

Lesbian - same sex attracted.
Transwoman - changed gender.

There, fixed it for you.

If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women,

Woman, simply Woman is sufficient. The way you word it it's almost as if transwomen existed before women.

What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

You'd have to be absolutely hammered to not identify someone as a TW.

And no one should be taking advantage of someone in that state.

Perhaps you could pop your question onto Pistonheads and ask the men there whether them being attracted to a TW without recognising them as such (more likely - men aren't as good at recognising sex as women) means they're gay.

No? Why not?

It's a shame you started this thread on Brighton Pride weekend.

I am proud to be exclusively same-sex attracted. It's not absolutist or exclusionary, it's a valid sexual orientation and something I wish people would stop challenging.

Also, and I'm sorry if this is crude, but any lesbian with sexual experience would realise a trans partner was trans.

Male people will never have female pheromones.

OP are you the transwoman in this scenario? If so then you are a creepy heterosexual male. And if you believe you can deceive a potential sexual partner as to you sex right up to and including through sex then you are not only deluded but also planning rape/sexual assault by deception. But join Stonewall - I believe they are campaigning to decriminalise rape by deception.

But how can anyone truly ever define their own sexuality by this logic?

I’d say I was heterosexual but I’ve not asked any of the blokes I’ve fancied how they identify so I could be wrong couldn’t I? Couldn’t we all?

I've recently seen more twitter posts referring to androphiliic or gynephillic transwomen.

These terms suggest that the TWs are attracted to either women or femininity/males or masculinity in their partner.

For most people their sexual orientation is based on sex, not gender presentation so these terms and ideas relate to v v few people. But they can use those terms if they find them helpful I guess.

The rest of us will stick to sex.

The idea that you could be so taken in by someone's presentation so as to not know their biological sex is a fantasy in most if not nearly all cases.

Come on OP, out with it, who do you want to have sec with who’s not into you?

Also wondering about the OP's skin in the game?

Are you a lesbian yourself or simply musing about other people's sexuality?