Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

[aseriesofstillimages]

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

The school hols get boring so quickly, don't they?

If you're troubled by same sex attraction, that is homophobia, OP.

This is an obsession with labels.

There will be trans women that heterosexual males and homosexuals are attracted to, and they will be attracted to the feminine qualities of that individual.

But there are some bearded men, who present as men yet call themselves trans women and demand that lesbians find them attractive. No one is sexual attracted to a "gendered soul".

Decades ago gay identities didn't exist, there were just men and women who had homosexual relationships.

What does it matter what you label yourself as? How does that change your life? Unless you're one of those people who thinks sexuality defines WHO you are, not WHAT you are.

@BootsAndRoots

There will be trans women that heterosexual males and homosexuals are attracted to,

No, there won’t. A heterosexual male is attracted to females. You are trying here to redefine a word so much that it loses all meaning.

I'm not a lesbian, so can't claim much insight. I do speak English though, and the word homosexual means same sex attracted. Lesbian means a woman attracted to women.

Many 'straight' women discover later in life that they are actually bi, when they realise they've fallen for another woman. They wouldn't claim they are still straight, I don't think.

You may come to understand yourself better as time goes on, but you use new words rather than mangling the existing ones that no longer apply to you.

There's no such human as a "non trans woman". I think you mean woman.

And same sex attraction means same sex. If you are attracted to people regardless of sex I understand that makes you pansexual.

Bisexual, surely?

Pansexual, I believe, tends more to mean someone who’ll do anyone or any thing, even when sober.

Has OP not been back then? Well
colour me surprised

For the love of God, stop it with this "identity" nonsense.

Words have objective definitions. 'Identity' is subjective.

"I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’."

There. I've fixed it.

Pansexual is either a virtue signalling bisexual who wants you to know how unbiggotted they are in their attractions. Or a straight or gay person who is staying with a partner who has transed and now needs to redefine their sexuality to validate them.

Or an anxious teenager needing to signal 'please don't scream burn the witch at me', since it's a much, much safer answer than many others. It's become a polite social lie meaning 'do it to Julia'.

A good friend of mine had a pansexual nanny, and in her case I think it was possibly a language issue, as she seemed to be more a nymphomaniac with poor understanding of other people not being the same.

Lovely girl she was, very popular.

I thought pansexual meant “heterosexual, but desperate to seem special”.

Thank you for engaging with my question seriously and politely. There is a logic to what you say, but my question would be, why is it for you (or anyone) to decide the rules which determine how this person can define themselves?

I’m not saying a person can unilaterally use words about themselves based on a meaning that is utterly divorced from the way in which anyone else in society uses them. Or they can, but they can’t expect others to find that usage meaningful. But that’s not what we’re talking about here - there are many people, including gay people, who believe that you can be gay/lesbian while finding trans people of the opposite gender attractive.

@aseriesofstillimages "but my question would be, why is it for you (or anyone) to decide the rules which determine how this person can define themselves?"

People can define themselves however they want. I could define myself as a flying purple spotted green elbowed hippo and be adamen t that that is what I am. But that doesn't mean that I am that, or that anyone else would see me as that.

Everyone else would rightly see me as a human being.

@aseriesofstillimages

There is a logic to what you say, but my question would be, why is it for you (or anyone) to decide the rules which determine how this person can define themselves?

It’s both for the reason that you go on to mention, that words already have accepted meanings, and so you are just being deliberately confusing, but also because you are removing the ability of a group to define themselves, and this is (in this case) a deliberate act that’s part of a concerted effort to shame lesbians into sucking men’s cocks.

If you take the word lesbian away from same-sex attracted women, then how do they now describe themselves?

If you allow men into lesbian dating apps because you say that they are lesbians too, then you take away a lesbian service.

Let’s not pretend that this is a neutral act. You and others are doing this for one reason, and one reason only, which is that you want to facilitate the coercion of homosexual women into having heterosexual sex.

You will be aware of the concept of the cotton ceiling. Your post here is just one more part of your sort’s inability to respect a woman’s right to say no.

I’m a woman who has been with my same sex partner for many years, and although I’m bisexual, I have quite a few lesbian friends. Including one who is in a relationship with a trans woman.

What I find troubling is that a lot of people here think they are entitled to tell individual lesbians like my friend that they are not lesbians. Rather than accepting that questions of sex, gender and sexuality are complex and that language and identity categories in this area often don’t have a single, universally agree definition, people here believe themselves to have privileged knowledge of an absolute truth - in a manner reminiscent of religious fervour - and then foist that on other people to contradict their own understanding of their sexuality.

A woman who is sexually attracted to a man is not a lesbian, that is correct. What’s the question?

She will have ceased to be a lesbian, but don't worry, she can still identify as one.

And I believe that a previous poster has already asked, op, but if you missed it I'd like to (seriously and politely, of course) repeat the question - how would you, in the context of your question, define yourself? You seem quite interested in how lesbians define themselves; I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what your interest in this matter?

Isn’t everyone here trying to define the theoretical edge cases and then force their understanding onto everyone else? My own position is that language around sexuality is necessarily evolving and to some extent subjective, so it isn’t generally reasonable, helpful or respectful to go around telling people they have wrongly categorised their own sexuality, unless their use of terms has no relationship to that of society at large.

I’m not saying a person can unilaterally use words about themselves based on a meaning that is utterly divorced from the way in which anyone else in society uses them. Or they can, but they can’t expect others to find that usage meaningful.

So like a man who uses the word 'woman' to describe himself - is that the kind of thing you're getting at?

If you call yourself a vegan but eat meat, you can't be surprised that other people think you're being a bit odd in your choice of words. They'll probably be too polite to mention it though.

But imagine this is all part of a movement to force all vegans to redefine veganism as eating animal products, and to change the meaning of veganism to 'proud to eat animal products'? To shame and bully vegans to eat animal products whether willing or not? To leave no definitions at all for those who were formerly known as vegans because the invaders quite like the word and the concept and the feels of it?

If you're in a relationship with a male you're not a lesbian. I'm sorry, you're not. If you insist on calling yourself a lesbian you crack on, but I'm not indulging this any further because it's an active part of propping up the homophobia and lesbophobia now utterly rampant in this society. Brought about by the selfishness and entitlement of TQ+ politics. Find your own words. Stop trashing other people in the name of I Deserve It and No one Says No To Anything I Want.

Are you suggesting there is no single trans woman in existence who a woman could chat to/kiss in a bar while still believing them to be a cis woman?

It’s a really weird idea that anyone should want to try so hard to pressure other people who fundamentally don’t fancy them that they ought to.

I'm a straight woman and no lesbian I’ve ever known has tried to persuade me otherwise. And I’ve never tried to persuade a gay man that they should give me a chance.