Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

[aseriesofstillimages]

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

This.

They are not even trying to hide the homophobia anymore

Well for one thing it's not a "concept" but a material reality. Secondly its really not that complicated, some people are gay, get over it. 🤷‍♀️

Anyone who thinks that a lesbian ,who says they are same sex attracted ,is demonstrating an "absolutist approach" to identity can just fuck off!

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable.

When it comes to being "absolutist", thanks to Allison Bailey's tribunal case, the belief that 'The tone of [Stonewall]'s campaigning on this subject has been binary, absolutist and evangelical. It may be summarised as “You are with us, or you are a bigot.” ' is now protected.

As is the belief (para 279 (e)) that "Gender theory as proselytised by [Stonewall] is severely detrimental to lesbians. In reclassifying “sex” with “gender”, [Stonewall] has reclassified homosexuality from “same sex attraction” to “same gender attraction”. The result of this is that heterosexual men who identify as trans women and are sexually attracted to women are to be treated as lesbians. There is therefore an encouragement by followers of gender theory (including [Stonewall) on lesbians to have sex with male-bodied people. To reject this encouragement is to be labelled as bigoted. This is inherently homophobic because it denies the reality and legitimacy of same sex attraction and invites opprobrium and threatening behaviour upon people who recognise that reality and legitimacy."

So it seems that you are in danger of proposing an "absolutist" and "inherently homophobic" position here, @aseriesofstillimages

If you can't distinguish a woman from a man (however they're dressed) at a cursory glance, then you need to visit an optician.

What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

Ask the transwoman who lied to you if you're a lesbian. That'll sort it all out for you.

It's not my job to have to explain your strange bullshit world to you, OP.

I'm with Strictly - they have 'same-sex couples'. And that's the BBC.

It's not your identity that's the problem

It's reusing words to have a different meaning to fit your identity that's a problem

Words are the way in which we interface with others

So you identify as a lesbian even though you are attracted to people of either sex / that a fine , it's your identity? So keep it up yourself

but if you are attracted to either sex , others will not call you lesbian and may refuse to accept your internal identity as having any meaning outside of your own head

Oh you can find tweets flat out celebrating homophobia and saying it's time it was something to be proud of if it prevents homosexual females withholding sex from males who want to have sex with a lesbian.

The basic fact seems to escape the tweeters that anyone who believes that you providing them with sex whether or not you want to is a social duty on you (and they have no reciprocal responsibilities to you), who believes that sex is about you meeting their needs and has zero interest in your pleasure or consent as their partner, and who comes from a political position encouraging you to 'learn to cope' with unwanted, disliked sex is not relationship material regardless of their sex or gender identity. Run a mile from anyone who treats others like this.

You may also like to look at some of the rape fantasies shared on Twitter by some of those who have been at the forefront of this 'you can learn to put up with straight sex if you try and it's transphobic of you not to' movement against homosexual females. You really don't have to look very far. At least one who has posted articles in lesbian magazines 'encouraging' homosexual women to get straight for the sake of TQ+ male people has shared punishment rape fantasies regarding those homosexual women who want to - well. Go on being homosexual, basically.

Somewhere you'll also find the online rant about women 'selfishly prioritising their own orgasms' instead of providing distressed male people with badly needed sexual access to their body.

This is what all this 'be generous and let me do what I want to your identity words and definitions' stuff is rooted in, and this is what proponents of it are supporting, whether consciously or not.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity

Then goes on to correct lesbian's understanding of their own sexuality/identity

Maybe instead of setting aside those problems OP you should actually look at the first, then maybe you will understand why it is so problematic telling lesbians they should just accept sex with a dick.

If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women

You mean a lesbian? Do you see why that word is so useful now? Having nouns, and other defined words, cuts out verbiage by no longer needing to describe a phenomena in long descriptive text.

Lets be honest OP, men always knew there's no such thing as a Lesbian, Lesbians are just bitches withholding the sex from decent men because all women need dick in their lives.
Well done for believing that bollocks

I think had the TQ+ queer theory political movement demonstrated an ability to care about and respect other people's identities and words and cultures and groups, had they had the faintest interest in others apart from themselves and their wishes and desires, those groups would never have needed to make their boundaries clear

This is brilliantly put.

In real life I don't think transwomen do 'pass' as biological women - even though people don't go around pointing this out.

A thought-experiment where a lesbian (a same-sex attracted woman) falls for a trans-woman sounds like version of a popular male fantasy. (Surely, being attracted to a male body would make her hetrosexual or bi ?)

A d while we're at it what the fuck is a "non trans woman"?

Funnily enough these thought experiments never seem to involve 'lesbian' transwomen mistakenly hooking up with other 'lesbian' transwomen.

Does anyone know why my polite, factual post pointing out the sex of trans women was deleted?

If you don't like man c&ck why would you like "woman" c&ck.

Given it has been determined that 'sex is immutable' is a protected belief then MN can't possibly have deleted you for a protected manifestation of that belief could they 🤔?

It's almost like conversion therapy isn't it "you've just not had a relationship with the right kind of man". In this case the kind of man who wants to be a woman.

To answer the OP, is you are a lesbian who is sexually attracted to women and Transwomen then you are bisexual.

What @Artichokeleaves said.

You aren't going to 'subsequently' find out the woman you were attracted to is trans because humans, especially women, are exceptionally good at telling apart the sexes. We do it on conscious and subconscious levels. We do it with sight, sound and smell. Our sight, alone can distinguish well enough to correctly identify the sex of a person based on their cadence as shown by points of light representing their torso and leg and arm joints. Your scenario is never, ever, ever going to happen, so it's a blatantly ridiculous strawman. Outside of specially posed and lit, and probably filtered, photographs, transwomen are always, obviously people who are biologically male.

So stop being so fucking homophobic and accept that some people are solely attracted to people of the same sex. Lesbians are only attracted to women. Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity Yes it is a problem, a big problem, so stop doing it to lesbians.

Stonewall - Setting Aside the Problems with Presuming to Correct Another Person's Understanding of their Own Identity since 2015...

Adding transpeople into the mix doesn't change reality, because they have a biological sex as every other person has.

You can be one of these things.

A biological female attracted only to biological females - you are a lesbian.

A biological female or male attracted to the opposite sex - you are heterosexual.

A biological male attracted only to biological males - you are gay.

A biological female or male attracted to both males or females - you are bisexual.

A biological female or male attracted to nobody - you are asexual.

Everything else is really one of those options trying to sound special.

It doesn't matter what identity you decide to take on, you are either a biological male or a biological female, you are either attracted to the same sex, the opposite sex, both sexes or neither.

Whatever you say you are, you are already one of the above & we already have words which do not need to be redefined.

This.

I am shocked to see OPs post. And it is pretty clear hatred of lesbian boundaries.