80 year old woman banned from pool for standing up for little girls

[Misstache]

This poor woman dedicated her life to defending women and girls. She heard a male voice while in the shower at her local pool, looked out and saw a TW changing near 4 or 5 little girls while staring at them. She stepped in, asked if the TW had a penis, and got banned and the pool staff threatened to call police on her. They lied and said she said all kinds of profane things. This is so disgusting. I feel so bad for her.


reduxx.info/senior-woman-banned-from-local-pool-after-expressing-concern-over-male-in-womens-washroom/

[Lovelyricepudding]

Wi Spa?

[Staynow]

@SweetPetrichor

You’ve taken a pretty massive leap to say that a trans woman using the same facilities as born females must be a peodophile based on the say so of one lady. I’d rather share facilities with a trans woman than a bigot.

How many people do you need to come forward before you believe someone could potentially be a paedophile? You're right though, if someone comes forward and says they've been sexually attacked we shouldn't believe them unless others have come forward and confirmed it. Brilliant idea.

You do know that 'not being believed' is a big reason women don't come forward don't you? - and now you're suggesting that they shouldn't be believed as they may have their own agenda!

You don't have a penis do you?

[Pluvia]

@brightenmynorthernsky1

There are always going to be isolated incidents like this that (if 100% true) are going to be unsettling to most people, including those in the trans community. I do think it is important to remember that they are isolated and not to allow ourselves to get whipped up by the political agenda against this community that is being peddled at the moment. There have always been TW and TM and such issues have always raised difficult situations but the discrimination and violence they suffer as a community is very real. I saw a TW in my local town shopping centre being extremely unsure of which bathrooms to go into as the disabled/baby change ones were locked and I really felt for her as she may have come up against anti trans sentiments in the ladies and yet the mens would likely feel so intimidating. In the end she didn’t use either bathroom. Please let’s remember that 99.9% of TW and TM just want to live their lives and not be the focus of endless attention and often hate which seems to becoming more and more prevalent on this forum and elsewhere x

So sexual abuse of children happens and we just have to accept that and turn a blind eye when we see it in progress — is that what you're arguing?

Do decent men want to gain access to changing rooms where they can watch women and girls naked while they change and shower? No. So what sort of men want access to female changing rooms?

[BoredofthisCrap7]

"and I really felt for her as she may have come up against anti trans sentiments in the ladies and yet the mens would likely feel so intimidating"

Why is it up to women to be some kind of human shield for men who are afraid of other men?
What about the feelings of the women and girls in the toilet where the trans women might have gone in? What if THEY felt intimidated? Does that not matter, as long as the TW can do as they please?

They were obviously trans otherwise you would not have made this assumption presumably? So an obvious man - why wouldn't that "intimidate" women and girls trying to use a space designated for them?

Quite frankly I'm beyond caring if a man feels "intimidated" in the men's toilets - it's not up to women and girls to absorb his fear.

[Misstache]

Remember when we were told that TW were deeply self conscious about their bodies and NO TW would EVER be changing in the open anyway? So it was absurd to be worried about change rooms because actually TW would hide away? Now we have people 4 months into transition openly naked and changing and walking around without underwear etc. in full view of women and children. And now the narrative has shifted to “why are you looking.”

[Helleofabore]

@BoredofthisCrap7

"“I would just like to state that this individual is not a man identifying as a woman, this individual is a woman.” Rebecca Horasct of Sequim, Washington said, “It is inappropriate in this day and age for people to not recognize what transgender means.”

Bullshit.
Are we denying science now too? Trans means that they "identify" as the other sex surely? Not that they LITERALLY ARE the opposite sex (otherwise they wouldn't be "trans" would they? HE literally is a man identifying as a woman.

""Hawkins added that her solution to females who felt uncomfortable changing around males were to use bathroom stalls, which are located in the same gender-neutral area. She also suggested closing the shower curtain was an appropriate solution for privacy and safety.""

Ah, great. Just close the damn CURTAIN ladies! We all know that SHOWER CURTAINS are rape proof shields that no man can possibly enter. And there's literally no way of opening them against your will.

Problem solved.

And on one hand we are supposed to tell our girls to be accepting of males being able to watch them undressing, or even just be accepting of them in female single sex spaces.

Yet, they are also then supposed to feel free enough to articulate they feel uncomfortable.

Seriously, do the people supporting this actually think this through.

Do they actually know anything about children? And can they understand the outcome of this confused messaging?

“Oh look, there is a male looking at us! No silly, that is a woman so it if all ok. Mummy and the teachers have said that we should be kind and accepting. “

And if you are in a group of friends, who is actually a) going to notice the male watching and b) have the courage to say anything knowing you are just as likely to be told you are unkind

Just fuck off with lowering children’s boundaries!!

[NotBadConsidering]

There are always going to be isolated incidents like this that (if 100% true) are going to be unsettling to most people

Isolated incidents 🙄. It’s always n+1 isn’t it? There’s a whole thread of “isolated incidents” FFS. The world is awash with millions of “isolated incidents” of males abusing women in this manner. South Korea has an epidemic of “isolated incidents” of men hiding spy cameras in women’s spaces. It’s because of these millions of “isolated incidents” that we attempt to safeguard women and girls by excluding males from these spaces. If males who identify as trans are intimidated by men’s spaces, then maybe send men to the gender Gulag to “re-educate” them on THEIR bigotry.

[ChristinePerfect]

@brightenmynorthernsky1

There are always going to be isolated incidents like this that (if 100% true) are going to be unsettling to most people, including those in the trans community. I do think it is important to remember that they are isolated and not to allow ourselves to get whipped up by the political agenda against this community that is being peddled at the moment. There have always been TW and TM and such issues have always raised difficult situations but the discrimination and violence they suffer as a community is very real. I saw a TW in my local town shopping centre being extremely unsure of which bathrooms to go into as the disabled/baby change ones were locked and I really felt for her as she may have come up against anti trans sentiments in the ladies and yet the mens would likely feel so intimidating. In the end she didn’t use either bathroom. Please let’s remember that 99.9% of TW and TM just want to live their lives and not be the focus of endless attention and often hate which seems to becoming more and more prevalent on this forum and elsewhere x

Why would men's toilets seem intimidating? What's different about the men's toilets?

[DameHelena]

@brightenmynorthernsky1

There are always going to be isolated incidents like this that (if 100% true) are going to be unsettling to most people, including those in the trans community. I do think it is important to remember that they are isolated and not to allow ourselves to get whipped up by the political agenda against this community that is being peddled at the moment. There have always been TW and TM and such issues have always raised difficult situations but the discrimination and violence they suffer as a community is very real. I saw a TW in my local town shopping centre being extremely unsure of which bathrooms to go into as the disabled/baby change ones were locked and I really felt for her as she may have come up against anti trans sentiments in the ladies and yet the mens would likely feel so intimidating. In the end she didn’t use either bathroom. Please let’s remember that 99.9% of TW and TM just want to live their lives and not be the focus of endless attention and often hate which seems to becoming more and more prevalent on this forum and elsewhere x

The discrimination and violence women suffer as a community is very real too.
Male intimidation is not women's problem. Trans-identifying people are very welcome to lobby for safe bathroom spaces, just as women had to.
As an aside, a thread here a while ago discussed the 'gender-bending' prevalent in youth culture in the 80s. Many people recalled their male friends in eyeliner, frilly clothes etc using the men's loos and not being intimidated/beaten up/hounded out. I'm not sure things have changed so much that a trans-identifying man in 2022 can enter a men's loo only in extreme fear for their safety.

[FunnyTalks]

Trans ideology and its supporters have enabled a situation where a grown male is in a SINGLE SEX changing room around young girls using the toilet.

Then trans ideology and its supporters gets outraged that anybody could possibly draw links between this transwoman and paedophiles.

Most trans people did not ask for this shit. This is not how they used to go about their lives. Imagine having your rights movement hijacked by people who make you out to be indistinguishable from paedophiles and deal with the consequences by dismantling safeguarding to boot.

[NitroNine]

The absolute state of this 🤦‍♀️

Unlawful imprisonment is a Class C felony in Washington State - pretty sure that’s not ‘following the [YMCA] values and principles’ but the aquatics manager was all for having a crack at it. It’s almost a pity she didn’t manage it (only almost, as of course wouldn’t wish that kind of experience onto Ms Jaman) because [up to] 5 years in prison &/or a fine of up to $10,000 would be a salutary lesson.

As for the meeting - what a shocker that someone drove over 31 miles to pronounce about facilities they have no cause to use. Always someone willing to do a bit of trampling when nothing & no one of theirs is [as they understand it] underfoot. Similarly, so touching to read about yet another man being ready to hand over women’s spaces. He was right that the gender binary is unscientific nonsense - just not in the way he meant. Gender isn’t a universally agreed constant: it’s both culturally & temporally dependent & - crucially - it’s never assigned. Sex, however, IS binary; consistent; immutable; & observed then recorded at birth in a very simple & wholly scientific fashion.

It’s clear that they know mixed-sex changing isn’t going to be a winner there, hence the lack of clear signage; the aggressive response to try to shut down complaints; & indeed as demonstrated/proven by the way the town meeting went. “Gender neutral” facilities without single sex spaces are all about “validation”. Women & girls being treated as props, which is grotesque.

Of course, all of this has made Ms Jaman very aware of what’s going on; & she’s clearly a woman with lots of experience organising. It wouldn’t be surprising if this lead to her actively campaigning for an amendment to the law to bring back single-sex spaces for those who desire & require them, really 🤷‍♀️

[EsmaCannonball]

There's never any consistent logic to the arguments, is there? I lose track of how many times we're told that public toilets are 'just a place to pee' and any woman who objects to unisex ones is a penis-obsessed bigot with terrible, unfounded hang-ups, but then we're told that public toilets are dangerous places where the kind of men who behave badly will behave badly, and therefore the women's toilets have to be made unisex (and therefore more dangerous) to protect men from men.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

"Do you have a penis" does seem an odd question - I mean what if the individual was a born male who'd had the op? Would this be any more appropriate?

[FunnyTalks]

@ChristinePerfect

Why would men's toilets seem intimidating? What's different about the men's toilets?

What a stark example of how wasted the TRA effort has been. If only they'd used their considerable influence to help trans people feel safer in the toilets for their sex.

You do understand that as, soon as single sex becomes mixed sex, the very males the transwoman is so scared are able to enter the female toilets unchallenged, right?

You do understand many women feel uncomfortable around males of any gender ID in enclosed spaces? It's just, unlike the transwoman, there are also the physical strength disparities, lifetime of female socialisation, ability to become pregnant from rape (happened to me so fuck off before I'm scolded for using that example)?

Yes trans people have been around a long time. This colonisation of female spaces however, is new.

[Jimmyneutronsforehead]

@Didimum how much effort, or rather, what does a man have to do to become a trans woman in your eyes?

[Helleofabore]

So the process seems to be the following (or did I miss answers to my questions? In which case I apologise).

if a woman sees a male watching a group of girls undress she should

1. not react straight away unless she can politely ask the right questions.
   
   
2. take the time to get dressed, leaving the girls without protection.
   
   
3. leave the girls with suspicious male without protection while going to the management.
   
   
4. discuss the issue with management who may or may not investigate.
   
   Who is protecting the girls during this?
   
   Does anyone seriously think this is the right way to deal with these situations?

[Helleofabore]

@YetAnotherSpartacus

"Do you have a penis" does seem an odd question - I mean what if the individual was a born male who'd had the op? Would this be any more appropriate?

I take it as someone who is partly aware of the discussions around language changes and spoke without having the time to fully consider what she should ask.

[SuperPets]

@YetAnotherSpartacus

"Do you have a penis" does seem an odd question - I mean what if the individual was a born male who'd had the op? Would this be any more appropriate?

Thye'd be a much lower threat to anyone, statistically.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I take it as someone who is partly aware of the discussions around language changes and spoke without having the time to fully consider what she should ask

I guess so ...

Thye'd be a much lower threat to anyone, statistically

Men don't just use penises in assaulting women and threats come in differnet forms.

[ChristinePerfect]

@FunnyTalks
Yes I do understand all of that perfectly well thank you.
I was asking the previous poster to clarify why a male-born person would feel intimidated by using men's toilets, when women are being told that there's nothing to fear from being in toilets in the presence of male-born people.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

This is why I dont do pronouns

Theres a woman in the changing room.. shes making ne uncomfortable makes the little girls sound like the arsehols.

Theres a man in the changing room.hes making us uncomfortable, tells you exactly what is going on.

I worry some people's bar is so low that there has to be some physical action that visibly takes place amongst many witnesses in order for it to be a problem when for most of us a male even going into the space designated for women amd girls has already crossed the line.

[Lovelyricepudding]

Wi Spa nypost.com/2021/09/02/charges-filed-against-sex-offender-in-wi-spa-casecharges-filed-against-sex-offender-in-notorious-wi-spa-incident/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1e_ws81-vaALSlUfdhuYlufJNoLzR31q-WII_WCUISsfR5Rnvx-21RtFc

Guardian coverage of the incident: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/28/anti-trans-video-los-angeles-protest-wi-spa

[Dutchesss]

“I have been a woman for all of my 80 years. I don’t intend on changing. But it erases me. Because if that’s a woman… what am I?”
👏

[livinchina]

I think as women in these bizarre times, we will all have to be brave like this woman and accept that we might be punished in some way. It's the only way we can protect each other from the risks associated with this madness. I hope I would do exactly the same in this situation! Screw the pool, I wouldn't want to go there again anyway.