Page 6 | DQ Story Time kicked off in Bristol

McDuffy · 2022-07-29T05:40:03+00:00

I'm going to wade into the comments...! Protesters try to arrest drag queen Sab Samuel https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2ad0798c-0e9d-11ed-93cf-b011fa7fe86b?shareToken=3c528b6084adfbc7a3f1da805c2c7ee5

MangyInseam · 29/07/2022 19:37

GoodThinkingMax · 29/07/2022 18:49

Panto Dames, Justin in Gigglebiz… performers.

Actors who play pantomime dames are very different from drag queens. The Dames I know say they are a “bloke in a frock.”

Drag queens used to think that too, from what I remember. They didn't claim to be transsexuals or even transvestites.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/07/2022 20:01

I suspect drag queens still regard themselves as something different from pantomime dames. Something more sophisticated than an Ugly Sister in a performance of Cinderella.

Has anyone told drag queens they're pantomime dames? People just say it about them in their absence to show support of drag...

Penguintears · 29/07/2022 20:23

MrsWooster · 29/07/2022 14:45

It’s not inclusive of gay men, who’ve fought for years the idea that gay = effeminate.
It’s certainly not inclusive of women, since DQs aren’t women and their presentation is misogynistic caricature.
At best, it’s inclusive of drag queens.
At worst it’s inclusive of men who refuse to acknowledge boundaries and safeguarding.

What could possibly go wrong?

This is such a good post. I must remember these points!

cheekychatta · 30/07/2022 10:07

What is the difference between a drag Queen and a pantomime dame ?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/07/2022 10:09

cheekychatta · 30/07/2022 10:07

What is the difference between a drag Queen and a pantomime dame ?

Ask a drag queen. Maybe he'll tell you, before he reports you for a homophobic hate crime.

Abhannmor · 30/07/2022 12:57

MangyInseam · 29/07/2022 13:42

I work in a public library. The one I used to had a DQST.

I think it's fair to say that there is a ton of tokenism, of all kinds, in libraries now.

Public libraries are of course meant to be accessible to all people and to support their interests and needs in terms of information access. They also have a strong mandate to be politically neutral and to maintain balance in their collections as far as reflecting all public views.

But a combination of political pressure and the fact that the majority of people working in libraries see themselves as politically progressive means that being inclusive has largely been interpreted as being a venue to push id pol, in much the same way schools have been.

It's a fine line, but behind the scenes I think it's pretty clear that this goes beyond just trying to respond to the community. Just as an example, the library I used to work at was very strongly taking that approach. When directed at the political level to concentrate programming on diversity, they came out with a list of 10 children's authors for branches to invite. All ticked some diversity box - not including being a woman in that - none were white. This is a region which is over 90% white.

As you might imagine, collection diversity was also poor - there was certainly a concentration on what were seen as marginalized voices, a full third of the YA books were queer oriented. But if you wanted to have political diversity in the collection you would not find it. (They were terrified about the possibility of having certain books on the shelves that people might be upset about.)

There are groups that don't feel all that included in the library any more because it is so clearly oriented to a particular progressive political view. When it comes down to it, you can't have an institution that is really inclusive - in the sense of being politically neutral - and also so committed to being a vehicle for social change, even what it sees as positive social change.

Show quote history

If I had my life over I'd work in a library. Completely off topic I once found a copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the Hackney Central Library. I handed in the dreadful Antisemitic forgery and the assistant said ' oh yeah that should really be in the Reference library.' Said Reference library was a temple of learning. Lots of elderly men who read all the free newspapers everyday!

ScrollingLeaves · 30/07/2022 19:19

Samuel said that it was “unfortunate” the event had to be postponed but he would be back. “It wasn’t a riot but it wasn’t very nice,” he said. “It’s so wrong, so homophobic and so 1980s, it’s ridiculous.” The drag performer said that he recognised some of the protesters from Reading. “I genuinely believe these people are victims of a misinformation campaign, they need to be given the correct information since they distrust the core of society, I feel a bit for them, I pity them.

It isn’t homophobic, and it is hardly 1980s.
It is very much a trans ideology era event of the last five or so years.

Musomama1 · 30/07/2022 19:35

cheekychatta · 30/07/2022 10:07

What is the difference between a drag Queen and a pantomime dame ?

The same difference as between a dancer and an erotic dancer (IE a stripper). One is for everyone, one is for adults only. Simples.

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 20:22

Concerned parents protesting outside Welling library today.

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 20:47

This reply has been deleted

We've removed this post as we have reason to believe there's some misrepresentation here.

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 21:38

I don't understand why the picture of the women protesting had been removed. 🤷‍♀️

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 21:44

I've covered the word that could be problematic, hopefully the TRAs won't report it this time.

Thelnebriati · 30/07/2022 23:50

Call drag queens ‘pantomime dames’ to fool protestors, librarians told
''Council librarians attend training in how to handle conflicts with parents over children’s story hours hosted by drag queens''
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/30/call-drag-queens-pantomime-dames-fool-protestors-librarians/

Thelnebriati · 30/07/2022 23:53

''“What we’ve come up with is a rough guide to if you’re holding a controversial event – in our case it’s drag queens – we would say that the best thing is to involve your comms, involve equalities, councillors and the safeguarding teams from the start,” she said.
This includes a “statement from our safeguarding lead [officer] that says about how much they support what we’re doing”, while “hiding” negative comments on Facebook and not using Twitter”.
''Ms Ball said her library’s chief took the attitude of “template letter complaint, template letter response” and should report “anything abusive, offensive or aggressive” as hate speech.''

link is archived and readable at archive dot ph/ydFbf

NewPotatoSalad · 31/07/2022 00:22

How the fuck, in a time of deep austerity and economic crises, and particular focus here on library cutbacks - councils' money has found to implement:
More than 100 librarians attended the training earlier this month, on how to handle the fierce row with parents over a country-wide summer tour by Drag Queen Story Hour UK.

In the forum, held on July 20, librarians from across Britain shared “war game” strategies for dealing with “really distressing” drag criticism and being “bombarded by complaints letters”.

War game strategies???? Who's upping the ante here?!!

One speaker suggested the protesters could be fooled. They obviously think people are thick. Such arrogance.

We’ve always said pantomime dame because we don’t want protestors outside our building,” Ian Anstice, a librarian from Cheshire West and Chester, told the seminar.

So, Ian Anstice - you know the score and you're admitting that you're lying, and you know you're lying. You know you're pushing particular propaganda.

How about, councils save a lot of money, and time, and trouble, and a lot of opposition, if they just refrain altogether from Drag Queen Story Time?

I mean, seeing as it's now costing councils extra money both to stage DGST and to send staff on training courses to counter the opposition to something that was not even asked for in the first place.

DQS is not exactly an emergency service; and councils pushing DQST are now having to also finance training for librarians to counter parents' and residents' opposition to DQST.

StillNotAGirl · 31/07/2022 00:46

DQST in the UK is essentially one dude who set up a ltd company. How has he got the library service and councils running around like this?

Info on companies house is weird, looks like company is being dissolved. Is there anyone who knows about company law able to explain why you’d get a compulsory strike off then go for a voluntary strike off after you’ve applied to stop the compulsory?
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12675151/filing-history

NewPotatoSalad · 31/07/2022 01:07

Thats interesting, StillNotAGirl. Thank you

How did this guy get so influential with libraries and councils all over the UK? What is the reasoning?!

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 31/07/2022 01:21

Igmum · 29/07/2022 07:05

Why is the Times saying the protesters were from right wing groups? What's wrong with safeguarding? Drag Queens are adult entertainment, reading to small children shouldn't be sexualised

Yes, I was surprised by the tone of the Times article. The protesters are shown as antivaxxers and rightwingers, though the 'rightwing groups' aren't named. And they are contrasted with another group who supported inclusive teaching.

So a highly sexualised parody of women is 'inclusive', but a disabled or stereotype-breaking role model isn't even considered.

The Times is usually better at this. It reads as if written by someone inexperienced.

MangyInseam · 31/07/2022 01:28

Abhannmor · 30/07/2022 12:57

If I had my life over I'd work in a library. Completely off topic I once found a copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the Hackney Central Library. I handed in the dreadful Antisemitic forgery and the assistant said ' oh yeah that should really be in the Reference library.' Said Reference library was a temple of learning. Lots of elderly men who read all the free newspapers everyday!

Show quote history

There was a big controversy here over Abigale Shrier's book, they tried to have it removed from the library. The fellow leading the attempt to remove it with the local Pride group said, on the radio, for people to hear, "it's no different than if the library had Mein Kampf.

I was vicariously mortified.

MangyInseam · 31/07/2022 01:37

NewPotatoSalad · 31/07/2022 00:22

How the fuck, in a time of deep austerity and economic crises, and particular focus here on library cutbacks - councils' money has found to implement:
More than 100 librarians attended the training earlier this month, on how to handle the fierce row with parents over a country-wide summer tour by Drag Queen Story Hour UK.

In the forum, held on July 20, librarians from across Britain shared “war game” strategies for dealing with “really distressing” drag criticism and being “bombarded by complaints letters”.

War game strategies???? Who's upping the ante here?!!

One speaker suggested the protesters could be fooled. They obviously think people are thick. Such arrogance.

We’ve always said pantomime dame because we don’t want protestors outside our building,” Ian Anstice, a librarian from Cheshire West and Chester, told the seminar.

So, Ian Anstice - you know the score and you're admitting that you're lying, and you know you're lying. You know you're pushing particular propaganda.

How about, councils save a lot of money, and time, and trouble, and a lot of opposition, if they just refrain altogether from Drag Queen Story Time?

I mean, seeing as it's now costing councils extra money both to stage DGST and to send staff on training courses to counter the opposition to something that was not even asked for in the first place.

DQS is not exactly an emergency service; and councils pushing DQST are now having to also finance training for librarians to counter parents' and residents' opposition to DQST.

It's very weird.

The fact is that most people are very supportive of library programming and all kinds of different things going o at libraries.

The fact that this upsets so many people doesn't even stop and make them think - maybe this is socially too controversial. Because even if you think it's ok, it is clearly very controversial.

They are acting as if people are saying, don't let gay men or black women into the library, or something like that. These are characters, like someone dressed up as Dora the Explorer. Drag performers are allowed to come to the library just like anyone else I'd bet anything that if they had someone come dressed up as Tin Tin and people complained that he was colonialist, they'd apologize and not do it again.

SolasAnla · 31/07/2022 03:44

StillNotAGirl · 31/07/2022 00:46

DQST in the UK is essentially one dude who set up a ltd company. How has he got the library service and councils running around like this?

Info on companies house is weird, looks like company is being dissolved. Is there anyone who knows about company law able to explain why you’d get a compulsory strike off then go for a voluntary strike off after you’ve applied to stop the compulsory?
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12675151/filing-history

(Health warning: i'm no expert)

To get at assets in the company.
To protect the ability to be a director of "good standing".

It looks as if the company filed and gained limited liability (ll) in 2020 but failed to any legal filing since.
One of the trade offs for ll is that the company file a list of assets and debts and directors.
Failure to file will result in an automatic legal process (compulsory, as in not initiated by the director) where companies literally cease to exist and the law then treats the director as sole traders for contracts written "by the company" do no ll.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/1000
The second document is the beginning of that process and all property including (intellectual and branding and bank account etc) transfer to the ownership of the Crown.
Looks as if the owner/director then consented (voluntary, as in agreed with the order to close) to the winding up on the basis that it was not trading. The other option would be for the directors to apply to reinstate the company by complying any legal obligations.

Under a voluntary shut down the directors are allowed to carry out financial transactions like collect income and pay debts, like employee wages and directors fees. The advantage of agreeing to a voluntary shut down is that the director is taking responsibilty for what happens and retains control of the process.
A director in a compulsory strike-off company has effectively failed to carry out its legal obligations so that would be a red flag for people doing business with any other company the director is involved in (reputational risk).

StillNotAGirl · 31/07/2022 10:12

Thanks SolasAnla

The company is very much still trading as it’s the ltd company associated with the DQST web site. Wonder who the councils are actually contracting with and how they are paying for the service

ScrollingLeaves · 31/07/2022 10:21

StillNotAGirl · Today 10:12
Thanks SolasAnla

The company is very much still trading as it’s the ltd company associated with the DQST web site. Wonder who the councils are actually contracting with and how they are paying for the service Hmm

Perhaps the company supplies a list of DQs
to the Council, who then pays the DQ as a self -employed individual. The DQ would then pay the DQST company a commission- but n.b. I don’t know this for a fact.

severnboring · 31/07/2022 10:35

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 31/07/2022 01:21

Yes, I was surprised by the tone of the Times article. The protesters are shown as antivaxxers and rightwingers, though the 'rightwing groups' aren't named. And they are contrasted with another group who supported inclusive teaching.

So a highly sexualised parody of women is 'inclusive', but a disabled or stereotype-breaking role model isn't even considered.

The Times is usually better at this. It reads as if written by someone inexperienced.

Show quote history

I don't have a current Times sub but it's true that one of the groups protesting is a rightwing group:

mobile.twitter.com/AlfUpATree/status/1553667844272971778

(NB the tweeter is GC).

Looking at this total mess, I see 3 groups, none of which have children's, women's or LGB ppl's interests at heart -

daft so-open-minded-their-brains-have-fallen-out Bristol library ppl and parents wanting to virtue signal using their kids
Antifa black pampers
Weird mix of far-right groups, consipracy types etc

(GC women/MN types notably absent).

I guess this is what happens when safeguarding isn't understood and the ppl with power and responsibilty have their fingers in their ears. The point of a liberal democracy is to have many backstops before we end up with groups fighting it out on the streets... no idea how to get out of this depressing mess

MenopausalMe · 31/07/2022 10:43

severnboring it makes you wonder what we have to do as reasonable people to be listened to. I’ve written to my local councillor. Initial personal reply expressing concern and saying he’d raise it, nothing since. I wouldn’t physically protest at a library for a childrens event. I’ve previously written to other institutions like British library and institute of architecture not using a template (as did many other women). When there was a reply it fobbed me off.
We’re raising this is a reasonable way but they aren’t listening, less reasonable people start to physically protest and we get blamed for jumping straight to that and behaving aggressively. In the meantime we’re still writing polite emails.