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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harry miller arrested

464 replies

chilling19 · 28/07/2022 22:16

twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgemEeybKL

OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 29/07/2022 17:23

A good statement from the Hampshire PCC.

EmmaH2022 · 29/07/2022 17:26

Anyone else totally lost?!

Pluvia · 29/07/2022 17:38

Excellent response from the PCC. She's on Twitter if anyone wants to tell her.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 29/07/2022 17:39

EmmaH2022 · 29/07/2022 17:26

Anyone else totally lost?!

I think im keeping up

so a man was arrested for pointing out that the police were disobeying their own rules

That seems to be ok with some posters

ironically it does not seem to be ok with the police themselves….so actually maybe I’m not keeping up 🤔

MangyInseam · 29/07/2022 17:42

It seems pretty clear to me? The only real mystery was what the idiot police officers were thinking going after the guy who posted the meme.

InTheShadeOfTheFigTree · 29/07/2022 17:49

antelopevalley · 29/07/2022 15:52

If the police are trying to deal with someone and you get involved arguing with the police, you will probably get arrested but not charged.
You may be a middle-class woman who sees the police as a benevolent force and had no contact with them until now, but not all us come from that privilege.
There is a shade on this thread of - do they not know who I am.

'Police force' and 'benevolent'

Hmm, I don't think so.

Cailleach1 · 29/07/2022 17:50

Maybeonedayeventually · 29/07/2022 07:25

Quite a few posters feeling its an apt comparison though.

Anyone who doesn't consider that contocted flag to be anything but repulsive is no ally for women or humankind in general. Think what you like about TRAs, it doesn't compare to genocide.

Dark day for mumsnet.

I don't think the flags were doctored, or interfered with, in any way, though. If the pattern is designed in such a way that it easily forms that pattern when simply laid out, I wonder if some people think the offending flag should be banned then.

Can it have been designed to do that? Some people see patterns more easily than others.

I also think the huge array of hanging flags in Regent St. were a bit shocking. Chilling even. They were also laid out elsewhere to be more reminiscent of a huge rally elsewhere and I found that even more chilling. I'll try to find a photo of that one later.

I'm not really a flag person, though. For anything.

RoseslnTheHospital · 29/07/2022 17:54

EmmaH2022 · 29/07/2022 17:26

Anyone else totally lost?!

Not at all, and I wonder why it's proving just so puzzling to some people. My understanding after reading the thread:

Man A posted the progress pride flag arrangement on Twitter that made it look like a swastika to make a point that in his opinion the TRA movement is authoritarian.

Man A has previously been spoken to by the police, twice, over different posts/memes that he posted on social media.

Man A was spoken to by 3 police officers in his home. They go away and come back at a later specified time. By that point Man A had contacted Man B and Man C to be there to witness/document the police interaction.

During this second visit the police got very annoyed with Man B pointing out where they were not following proper police procedure. Man B is an ex police officer who most definitely knows the correct procedures.

The police arrest Man A for a possible offence related to the flag image.

The police arrested Man B for allegedly obstructing them in arresting Man A.

Man C was watching and documenting it all.

Man A - unknown
Man B - Harry Miller, ex police, founder of Fair Cop
Man C - Laurence Fox, contrarian agitator.

Later the PCC for the relevant police force gave a statement promising to look into why the police were spending time and resources interviewing someone over a social media post that is not criminal or even a "non crime hate incident".

ControversialOpening · 29/07/2022 18:13

The only real mystery was what the idiot police officers were thinking going after the guy who posted the meme

Well at least one of the officers was wearing a rainbow badge, so I don't think there's any need to 'check her thinking'. Stonewalled.

EmmaH2022 · 29/07/2022 18:35

Roses I meant lost about what posters are saying about each other.

anyway, I am glad there's been an apology.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 29/07/2022 18:39

anyway, I am glad there's been an apology.

I don't think there has been an apology, has there? The PCC is not part of the police force.

EmmaH2022 · 29/07/2022 18:50

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 29/07/2022 18:39

anyway, I am glad there's been an apology.

I don't think there has been an apology, has there? The PCC is not part of the police force.

Okay
an acknowledgement of things being crap.

BoreOfWhabylon · 29/07/2022 18:52

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:29

I find serried ranks of any flag disturbing, frankly.

Even if a flag starts as a joyful celebratory flourish, which the rainbow flag certainly did way back when, the uniformity and repetitive pattern soon looks authoritarian and intimidating.

I understand it was images like this picture of Regent St that prompted the 'Pride Swastike' image.

Harry miller arrested
TheBiologyStupid · 29/07/2022 19:04

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:29

I find serried ranks of any flag disturbing, frankly.

Even if a flag starts as a joyful celebratory flourish, which the rainbow flag certainly did way back when, the uniformity and repetitive pattern soon looks authoritarian and intimidating.

Indeed!

Baaaaaa · 29/07/2022 19:09

BoreOfWhabylon · 29/07/2022 18:52

I understand it was images like this picture of Regent St that prompted the 'Pride Swastike' image.

Terrifying. Bow to your rainbow overlords. BE KIND

Baaaaaa · 29/07/2022 19:13

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 17:21

If only because it's not quite the same kind of outlandish belief that the trolls here explicitly hold. I think our assumption-making visitor thinks of himself as a left wing anti-authoritarian, as his most recent post makes clear. They've got no idea about themselves.

That at least I find a bit reassuring. I prefer deluded naivety to willful power mongering. I doubt many of the people who fell for natzism and communist regimes were aware either though.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/07/2022 19:41

Baaaaaa · 29/07/2022 19:13

That at least I find a bit reassuring. I prefer deluded naivety to willful power mongering. I doubt many of the people who fell for natzism and communist regimes were aware either though.

It's a little disturbing that there were a number of people in power, including well-regarded intellectuals, who thought some of the notorious experiments were worth doing.

Giles Udy's interview and his book, 'Labour and the Gulag: Russia and the Seduction of the British Left,' give a chilling account of what happened to the kulaks and what Labour was prepared to tolerate as a 'worthwhile experiment' (cf George Strauss in the debate).

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-ecclesiastical-history/article/abs/labour-and-the-gulag-russia-and-the-seduction-of-the-british-left-by-giles-udy-pp-xxvii-660-incl-12-ills-and-1-map-london-biteback-publishing-2017-30-978-1-78590-204-8/E3359DA8F21EEFF1AAF48E2CB3D32919

"In January 1930, the New Statesman reported that dekulakisation was a "cruel experiment" involving "imprisonment and execution." Over the next two years, 1.8 million kulaks were arrested and deported to the North. Some 240,000 died. By 1931, 60,000 Russians had been arrested on religious grounds and 5,000 shot. The exact numbers may not have been known in the West, but the basic facts of Soviet mass murder, disenfranchisement, and slave labour were available to any literate Briton by the end of the 1920s.

More than a million people in Europe took part in "Prayers for the Persecuted" in 1930, effectively a mass protest again Russian barbarism towards the clergy. The Soviets’ use of unpaid prison labour to produce timber in the unbearable conditions of northern Russia was well documented and led many countries to boycott Russian timber in the 1920s. British sailors travelling to northern Russia saw the conditions with their own eyes, and numerous stowaways and escapees were able to provide the grim details. The evidence was there for those who had eyes to see.

Not everybody did. Timber made in gulags was illegal under the Foreign Prison-Made Goods Act of 1897 and the Labour Party had taken a strong stand against "sweated goods" when they were in opposition in the mid-1920s. And yet the Labour Party did not ban it once they were in power (the Conservatives finally did so in 1933), and many on the British Left refused to accept the evidence of brutality, starvation, and mass shootings long after the evidence was overwhelming."

www.acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2017/11/03/book-review-labour-and-gulag-russia-and-seduction-british

[Udy's] citations are often long, but it is always worth while persevering with them.

As Udy proves on page after page, facts were not always impossible to come by, but the likes of George Bernard Shaw and Sidney and Beatrice Webb systematically demonstrated deeply flawed political judgement in ignoring the reality.

www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2017/10-november/books-arts/book-reviews/labour-and-the-gulag-russia-and-the-seduction-of-the-british-left-by-giles-udy

Cailleach1 · 29/07/2022 19:58

I thought the unknown man A (at whose house several police arrived in order to arrest him, or make him pay a fine and enrol on a presumably ideological re-education course) only re-posted the picture of the arrangement of the flags. Possibly probably wrong, but I didn't think he was the first to lay four of them in that arrangement and post the image.

Now, who designed the flags which seem to be designed to form this pattern when four are laid out? Lorry load of police there next.

ScreamingMeMe · 29/07/2022 19:59

Cailleach1 · 29/07/2022 19:58

I thought the unknown man A (at whose house several police arrived in order to arrest him, or make him pay a fine and enrol on a presumably ideological re-education course) only re-posted the picture of the arrangement of the flags. Possibly probably wrong, but I didn't think he was the first to lay four of them in that arrangement and post the image.

Now, who designed the flags which seem to be designed to form this pattern when four are laid out? Lorry load of police there next.

Yes, that's my understanding too.

JemimaPuddlegoose · 29/07/2022 20:01

Why the extreme hostility and hate towards Jewish GC women?

I've been a regular poster on Mumsnet for nearly ten years, and a regular poster in Feminist Chat for years. I've even met other posters irl when attending rallies and other GC events. I've contributed to many threads about Jewish life and culture on MN and frequently fight against antisemitism.

Yet the second I mention that I'm Jewish, people start screaming at I'm a liar, accusing me of being a troll, "crying antisemitism", that I "hang out with transactivists" (I've never met a "transactivist" in my life and I certainly don't "hang out with TRA").

All solely and purely because I am Jewish.

Ask yourself what agenda is being pushed, in promoting the swastika and orchestrated hate pile-ons against Jews?

Personally I don't believe that the posters posting Jew-hate are posting in good faith. I believe they are TRA trolls trying to get screencaps for Twitter so they can prove that MN / GC movement is full of racists.

JemimaPuddlegoose · 29/07/2022 20:08

LaughingPriest · 29/07/2022 14:25

I think as a general rule of thumb, if you have a message you want to be taken seriously, whatever it is, leave swastikas out of it.

On all sides, whoever you are. At worst they are genuinely offensive to many, at best it's a lazy trope that has almost become meaningless. Think of a better way to convey your message than swastikas.

I like and enjoy satire. I think satire is nearly always better if swastikas are not involved. I think the only joke I can think of that is funny that involves Nazi imagery is that Father Ted episode, purely because it's so ridiculously overblown.

They have become, culturally, a blunt attempt to troll.

Well said.

The people defending swastikas and accusing Jews of "playing the antisemitism card" are racist. Period.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 29/07/2022 20:13

Personally I don't believe that the posters posting Jew-hate are posting in good faith.

Could you please link to the Jew-hate? Or at least quote it. I've seen people say that you weren't posting in good faith, which seems to be nothing to do with you saying that you're Jewish. I saw you called a liar because you drastically misrepresented Helen Joyce's book.

I don't think anyone's "promoting the swastika." Did it escape you that the people who rotated the image of the "Progress" flag don't like the flag or what it represents? They aren't promoting it. And where are orchestrated hate pileons against Jews happening?

Unless they know you, people are not going to judge you on your post history or previous meetups but only going to go off what you write in the thread here.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 29/07/2022 20:15

accusing Jews of "playing the antisemitism card"

Oh, you have supplied a quote! It is a quote, right? That's what quote marks mean. Where in the thread was that said?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/07/2022 20:22

JemimaPuddlegoose · 29/07/2022 20:01

Why the extreme hostility and hate towards Jewish GC women?

I've been a regular poster on Mumsnet for nearly ten years, and a regular poster in Feminist Chat for years. I've even met other posters irl when attending rallies and other GC events. I've contributed to many threads about Jewish life and culture on MN and frequently fight against antisemitism.

Yet the second I mention that I'm Jewish, people start screaming at I'm a liar, accusing me of being a troll, "crying antisemitism", that I "hang out with transactivists" (I've never met a "transactivist" in my life and I certainly don't "hang out with TRA").

All solely and purely because I am Jewish.

Ask yourself what agenda is being pushed, in promoting the swastika and orchestrated hate pile-ons against Jews?

Personally I don't believe that the posters posting Jew-hate are posting in good faith. I believe they are TRA trolls trying to get screencaps for Twitter so they can prove that MN / GC movement is full of racists.

you sound unhinged, and frankly paranoid

are you OK?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/07/2022 20:22

@JemimaPuddlegoose I've searched on some of your phrases and can't find them. This might be attributable to MN's broken advanced/search function.

If you would link to them here or give the time stamp then I'm sure a number of people would report them. Have you reported them to MNHQ?

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