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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tavistock clinic to close as not safe for children

698 replies

GettingMarriedAgain · 28/07/2022 12:27

Breaking news in the Times and Telegraph:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e1ed2bea-0e63-11ed-93cf-b011fa7fe86b?shareToken=4fa557c3083dee141defde72e0e53d54

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
SidewaysOtter · 28/07/2022 16:50

Much confused anger on Twitter that feminists are happy about this.

What they don't seem to understand is that we're happy that - hopefully - the harm will stop. That children won't be prescribed life-altering drugs on the premise that they 'just press pause' and are 'completely reversible' when they're nothing of the sort. That children who genuinely need treatment for mental health conditions, or autism or help because of abuse and bullying are hopefully going to get that, and it won't be swept away and ignored under the easy answer of a gender dysphoria diagnosis. That children who are gay won't find themselves on a gender-change pathway because their behaviour, likes/dislikes etc don't match harmful and narrow gender stereotypes, and instead will be allowed and encouraged to be themselves.

And that children who genuinely are transgender are going to find the help and support they need - including transitioning - in a clinical setting that has their interests and safety at heart, not an ideology, and that the treatments they're given are known to be safe and ethical because of the research that's been carried out.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/07/2022 16:50

After a little look on twitter, nothing from Mermaids, Stonewall, LOJ or the usual suspects yet.

He's busy ranting in a video at the "Waitrose customers" within Labour who support Keir Starmer.

Needmoresleep · 28/07/2022 16:58

Why are so many adult human males so invested in ensuring provision of experimental or under tested medical treatments for teenage females.

Abitofalark · 28/07/2022 16:59

frenchhealthcareisgood · 28/07/2022 16:11

Name changed for this. I am glad the Tavistock has closed, but it is only one example of the appalling exploitation and abuse of children and the dreadful lack of mental health services. I hope the mental health services will be provided in a timely fashion for all these children/young adults.

One of my children lives and works in France. They recently had a mental breakdown and was admitted to a psychiatric hospital as an emergency, taken there by a friend. Admitted immediately for emergency care, transferred to a more appropriate setting, kept in for 6 weeks, excellent care throughout, psychiatrist, therapist, social worker, nursing care all provided. Further 3 weeks with short outings with friends, now discharged with outpatient follow up.
Child has a normal sort of job, pays health insurance according to income, as does everyone there.

We really need to reassess how we pay for and provide health care in the UK. I am profoundly grateful that my child was taken ill in France, not here. Even though I was worried and unable to visit, I am sure we would have been in desperate straits by now and still waiting for an appointment if it had happened here.

Interesting. They were discussing the NHS and all the associated funding questions and comparisons with other systems and countries, including France, on Moral Maze last night - Radio 4, repeated on Saturday night or on iPlayer. Someone mentioned not all being well in the French system and something about a strike, if not a crisis.

pylonpal · 28/07/2022 17:09

Good clinical decision.

Of course children with gender confusion should have clinicians taking a wholistic look at those needs.

This is what we have said all along.

Will gender ideologues say now, ' Oh, Those people we called Terfs maybe had a point, and had been paying attention to what was going on. Maybe we should stop calling them names and start listening to what they say and engage in dialogue.' Nah, they won't.

Elefunt · 28/07/2022 17:10

THE TAVISTOCK HAS NOT CLOSED

Please people start getting it right, it is just the gender identity clinic that has closed, not the Tavistock Clinic.

frenchhealthcareisgood · 28/07/2022 17:14

Abitofalark · 28/07/2022 16:59

Interesting. They were discussing the NHS and all the associated funding questions and comparisons with other systems and countries, including France, on Moral Maze last night - Radio 4, repeated on Saturday night or on iPlayer. Someone mentioned not all being well in the French system and something about a strike, if not a crisis.

I hadn't heard this! I will try to find out a bit more. I have friends who work in the French health care system.

Thingybob · 28/07/2022 17:18

RandomlyThrownTogether · 28/07/2022 16:28

If you are reading this, the best sources of info are Cass' letter to the NHS.

Available here:

cass.independent-review.uk/publications/

And the GIDS statement:

gids.nhs.uk/news-and-events/regional-model-for-gender-care-announced-for-children-and-young-people/

From that GIDS statement;

Last year, referrals to our Gender Identity Development Service stood at over 3,500. In addition, the referral support service set up by NHS England for GP referrals recorded over 1,500 referrals.

Over 5,000 referrals in a year!

MalagaNights · 28/07/2022 17:18

I think it's quite easy for TRAS to pose this as a win:

More clinics
Better care
shorter waiting lists

They just have to ignore/ not mention the comments about childern being fast tracked and affirmed too quickly.

CrossStichQueen · 28/07/2022 17:19

Elefunt

Maybe it's a tad lazy of us but everyone who's a regular on this board knows its not the whole clinic so not necessarily getting wrong.

beastlyslumber · 28/07/2022 17:24

This is really good news and I hope it makes a huge impact.

DessicatedWithering · 28/07/2022 17:25

BBC News 24 tv have just had David Bell and Stephanie Davies Arai on and now David Bell is on PM with Evan Davis. Who isn't actually being as awful as usual - so far.

DessicatedWithering · 28/07/2022 17:28

And as penance Evan has just played LOJ's rant about Starmer. How utterly predictable.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 28/07/2022 17:36

Thoughtful thread:

And all those castigating the UK Government for not immediately banning ‘trans conversion therapy’ should read the interim report from Dr Hilary Cass, the respected pediatrician currently leading a review of Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People in England, in which she describes the country’s leading gender identity service as having been left to operate beyond “normal quality controls”.

It is then that you might fully understand that concerns about unintended consequences don’t come from the mouths of religious zealots, transphobes or bigots, they come from respected clinicians who care passionately about young people & only have their wellbeing at heart.

And the pomposity & self-righteousness of individuals prepared to turn a blind eye to the fact that we're medicalising children, mainly young women, many of whom are autistic, emotionally troubled, & who may be struggling with their sexuality, without any real scrutiny, evidence or data collection, amounts to neglect on an abhorrent scale.

We only need look at the Ockenden Maternity Review to see lives can be destroyed when ideology takes over from good medical practice rooted in sound evidence & with real safeguards.

Then there's the final contradiction. If anyone can identify how they wish without medical gatekeeping or surgery, that a man can be a woman by simple declaration, then why are we pushing young people towards a lifetime of medical interventions just to be who they want to be?"

twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1552660196773740544

RoyalCorgi · 28/07/2022 17:38

DessicatedWithering · 28/07/2022 17:25

BBC News 24 tv have just had David Bell and Stephanie Davies Arai on and now David Bell is on PM with Evan Davis. Who isn't actually being as awful as usual - so far.

Yes, Evan was better than usual. Partly because David Bell is such a good interviewee, partly because even Evan can understand that having a rant about how terrible it is that GIDS is closing wouldn't sound good to R4 listeners.

Titsflyingsouth · 28/07/2022 17:38

Common sense prevails. Thank goodness.

notonmynellee · 28/07/2022 17:40

shorter waiting lists

They just have to ignore/ not mention the comments about childern being fast tracked and affirmed too quickly.

I'm confused as to how the Tavistock waiting lists have been shown to be too long and children were fast tracked and affirmed too quickly.

MalagaNights · 28/07/2022 17:43

notonmynellee · 28/07/2022 17:40

shorter waiting lists

They just have to ignore/ not mention the comments about childern being fast tracked and affirmed too quickly.

I'm confused as to how the Tavistock waiting lists have been shown to be too long and children were fast tracked and affirmed too quickly.

Waiting lists to be seen were 2 years.
Children seen were quickly affirmed and placed on medical transitions.

SammyScrounge · 28/07/2022 17:52

PronounssheRa · 28/07/2022 12:38

The Cass findings must be absolutely damning for it to shut completely.

I fear the NHS will lose a lot of money in future legal claims because of the Tavistock

They deserve to be sued. They rushed youngsters into inappropriate and unnecessary treatment. I'll never understand how they got away with it.

notonmynellee · 28/07/2022 17:52

Ah, thanks @MalagaNights that makes more sense

maeveiscurious · 28/07/2022 17:54

Just caught radio 4, children were medically transitioned with as little as one meeting. How is this safe for any individual young or old? Surely there must be a timescale in place and to ensure that they understand the medical lifelong consequences. I don't think this will be pretty to unravel.

Franca123 · 28/07/2022 17:54

The Guardian are reporting it like its being shut down as the waiting lists are too long or something. They really do live in an alternate reality over there in King's Cross.

awwbiscuits · 28/07/2022 17:59

What a brilliant couple of days! First Allison and now this.

TurmericFan · 28/07/2022 18:05

6pm LBC news bulletin just reported the story only in terms of replacing 1 gender identity clinic with 7 or 8 due to increasing demand! As if that was all there was to it!

Felixsmama · 28/07/2022 18:06

Amazing I'm so pleased !!