Caster Semenya out of world 5000m as Coe signals tougher female sport rules

[Helleofabore]

Sean Ingle’s article today is very clear on more than one point.

amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jul/21/caster-semenya-out-of-world-5000m-as-coe-signals-tougher-female-sport-rules

“We’ve always been guided by the science, and the science is pretty clear: we know that testosterone is the key determinant in performance,” he said.

“I’m really over having any more of these discussions with second-rate sociologists who sit there trying to tell me or the science community that there may be some issue. There isn’t. Testosterone is the key determinant in performance.”

Coe insisted it was his responsibility to “protect the integrity of women’s sport”.

“We have two categories in our sport: one is age and one is gender,” he added. “Age because we think it’s better that Olympic champions don’t run against 14-year-olds in community sports. And gender because if you don’t have a gender separation, no woman would ever win another sporting event.”

and then there was this below about Caster Semenya. No more tip toeing around. It is like the new wording being considered by Coe has led to sticking to facts.

Semenya had previously won the world title at 800m three times, including in her last appearance at London 2017, but is now barred from running international events from 400m to a mile unless she takes medication to reduce her testosterone levels.

That is because, as a 46 XY athlete with a difference of sex development, the Court of Arbitration of Sport has ruled that Semenya has an advantage over the female competitors against whom she races.

www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/karyotype-46-xy

'A 46,XY karyotype reveals that one is dealing with a genetic male who was undermasculinized during fetal development'

‘I’m really over having any more of these discussions with second-rate sociologists who sit there trying to tell me or the science community that there may be some issue. There isn’t. Testosterone is the key determinant in performance.’

Coe really said this? That’s incredible.

Been watching the games. Seyni who is not allowed into the 400 metres under the dsd rules has gone through to 200 metres final

I don’t understand why the dsd athletes are allowed in some events and not others
it doesn’t make sense

I thought so too! But he must have said it.

He’s getting there but it is still more than just testosterone - it’s male puberty. Coe also struggles with sex and gender. Lord Coe, the categories are usually AGE and SEX and sometimes WEIGHT.

That is really something! I'm over it too, Seb!

Although I don't think it's only T that makes a difference... but if that's the measure that keeps males completely out of women's sports, it's fine by me.

Poor Caster Semenya. But I’m seeing arguments on Twitter about white women hating successful black women, and women not being allowed to have naturally high testosterone, and I don’t think that’s right in this case, is it? Semenya is genetically male, with an outwardly female phenotype. Is that right?

littlbrowndog

There is speculation that there will need to be further changes soon if you read Ross Tucker’s tweets.

And the commentators now say which athletes are racing under the dsd rules.

in the past they have pretended that no one notices what we see

Caster Semenya is a genetic male with XY chromosomes that has the DSD 5-alpha reductase deficiency where testosterone isnt produced properly during foetal development and childhood due to a genetic mutation, but then is produced and taken up during puberty when the gonads tale over. Hence it would have been obvious CS was a boy from puberty onwards and why CS lives and acts like a very male man. Also why this is the correct decision. CS has near asult man levels of testosterone and went through a male puberty.

Seyni actuall beat Shelley- Anne Fraser-pryce in the 200 metres heats.

she is one of our greatest women athletes

I know it was just a heat but that means a woman missed out on a chance to go through to the next round.

That’s good hellabore. Will have a look at his Twitter

It’s spot on.

Although later on in the OP he uses “gender”, not “sex” 😩 Shame he can’t stick with the language of fact rather than ideology.

The DSD libked to above is a completely separate one that also affects 46XY males but does result in near female levels of testosterone as an adult - because the mutation is in the receptors for testosterone, so the body doesnt recognise or use testosterone. This is called Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome amd is a completly different genetic condition to 5-alpha reductase deficiency, the one that CS has (which does allow for testosterone absorption, mainly from puberty onwards)

This is surprisingly strongly worded. I wonder if its an indication of pressures behind closed doors to be more inclusive?

I agree the continued conflation of sex and gender is unhelpful as it allows the sleight of hand by TRAs to make demands and outrageous claims - then deny them in the same breath.

I hope this will also be the beginning of the end of the search for and exploitation of XY athletes with DSDs to compete in female sports.

What are you referring to?

Werkwuha Getachew won the womens 3000m steeplechase

that is all I’m saying

If Seyni takes a medal from Asher-Smith I wonder what the reaction will be?
Christine Mboma is injured but she most likely would have been a medal winner in the 200m. Michael Johnson said last year that she was shaping up to be one of the greatest women athletes...

Finally. Some truth. Well said Coe.

Good on him.

But it's easier to say these things when you are a man.

Although I agree with pp: why is he using the word gender? It's NOT gender, it's sex.

“We have two categories in our sport: one is age and one is gender,” he added. “Age because we think it’s better that Olympic champions don’t run against 14-year-olds in community sports. And gender because if you don’t have a gender separation, no woman would ever win another sporting event.”

Thing is, its not something that you suddenly realise, is it? It's instantly obvious to anyone. Especially if you're part of the sporting profession.

I'm delighted he finally has the courage to state the bleedin' obvious and protect women's sport. But I fervently wish he would explain why it's taken him so long. We all know why, but I wish he'd address it.

Wow - I'm so pleased to see real science coming to the rescue here. And also kudos to Seb Coe for standing up and saying it. If only he'd said 'sex' and not 'gender' I'd be 100% happy.

Doesn't he mean sex? Just shows how the language has been muddied. And muddled!