trans supporters and tactics

[applesandpears33]

I was posting on the now deleted thread about trans women who wanted to pee and it made me think about the tactics that are used by trans supporters. The "need to pee" one being obvious. Another used to be "be kind" but I think that is becoming a little outdated now. Ageism is another I've observed - whether it is calling people who support single sex spaces dinosaurs, or just pointing out as was done on the other thread that it tends to be slightly older women who support womens rights. Another is to call people phobic, because we associate the word with homophobic which is obviously abhorrent. Also the mention of DSDs. Any other tactics that I've missed?

Silencing. Perhaps the most common strategy of all, clear from the #nodebate hashtag on Twitter and elsewhere, but even before that became so common I saw an incredible number of those gifs where a Japanese cartoon anime girl aims a gun at the reader of the tweet and the bottom of the gif says Shut Up Terf.

I thought that had passed out of fashion, but have started seeing it again recently, and, of course, just lots of tweets saying shut up, TERF.

Using extreme language comes close to this, because if any questions get the response "you don't want us to exist" or "your words kill a trans person somewhere right now" the result would be the same: Any debate is the same as genocide.

Seems that only subscribers can read that article. Is there an easy and short summary of its arguments?

Anti-women campaigners who support the ideology of transgenderism use the fake statistic that "the life expectancy of transwomen is less than 40", which is a deliberate distortion of the fact that some transgender sex workers in some parts of Latin America were murdered before they reached the age of 40.

This fake statistic is used disingenuously to give the impression that white, middle-class, male transgender people in the developed world are ultra-oppressed.

Remarkable isn’t it.

And those who disappear off a thread after a few deletions and no answers or acknowledgement that they are posting completely unevidenced bollocks but keep turning up the next week.

Some even start to gatekeep topics on FWR.

Or demand to know why sex and gender issues are being discussed on a board titled 'Feminism:Sex & Gender discussions'.

Always worth mentioning again, as it has been mentioned before, the usual ‘it cannot be indecent exposure for a male to be undressing in a female single sex facility if they are trans’.

Often deployed by a male who has absolutely no lived experience as a female, but feels they can admonish and shame women for not wanting to see penises in changing rooms.

It has been used tonight in fact on another thread.

As we appear to be nearly done I would like to add- links to pinknews, inews, etc. As if they are impartial reporters rather than fanatical zealots.

These posts have been great and given me a lot of food for thought. I think that when I can identify the tactics I'll get less wound up by them. I'm tempted to make up a bingo card for some of the more well worn phrases.

Ooh, yes - campaign hard for a separate board where all the 'sex and gender' threads can be corralled, then point at said board and ask why all the threads are about 'sex and gender' and claim that is evidence of feminists' 'obsession'.

See also: Report threads on here and try to get them put in the other board where nobody ever goes and report any vaguely 'gender' related threads anywhere on MN to try and keep them hidden away on this board.

Also, the demand to know why other subjects apart from sex and gender are discussed on the Sex and Gender board and not the barely used Feminism:Chat board despite the fact it was made abundantly clear at the time of the Great Divide that those who held GC views (as a wide ranging term) were not welcome on the Feminism:Chat board. I don't even bother looking at it because everything is discussed on this board anyway.

That's right, I recall some posters being told with great glee that they were not to post on the New Special Naice Board.

Oddly, the dedicated feminists who demanded the New Special Naice Board seem to have vanished like summer dew ...

Oddly, the dedicated feminists who demanded the New Special Naice Board seem to have vanished like summer dew ...

22 pages of threads on Feminism Chat as opposed to 795 pages of threads on the Sex & Gender Board.

Maybe it's time to drop the 'Feminism' prefix and just have this board titled 'Sex and Gender Discussions'

Part 1 grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document

Part 2 grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document-78d

Part 3 grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document-part-3

Mumsnet discussions here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3756354-RollOnFriday-law-firm-writes-report-called-Only-adults-Good-practices-in-legal-gender-recognition-for-youth?pg=1

Discussion on Dentons

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/dentons-campaigns-kids-switch-gender-without-parental-approval

James Kirkup in The Spectator

www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/amp

Maybe it's time to drop the 'Feminism' prefix and just have this board titled 'Sex and Gender Discussions'

No, maybe it's time to recognise where most of the feminist discussions are happening and merge the two boards back together again.

Quite.

Most of the feminist discussions have moved outside of mumsnet unfortunately.

Most of the feminist discussions have moved outside of mumsnet unfortunately.

Really? So MN setting up a special board because some posters pushed hard for it was a waste of time then?

I expect some people see it as unfortunate that they were unable to stop women talking on certain topics.

I was never too sure if they were posters rather than non-MN participants who lobbied for this.

As it is, FWR is continually subjected to a C21 Aesop's Fable.

fablesofaesop.com/the-lion-in-love.html

Not sure I agree. I think people are just using more platforms. I'm on Twitter more often than here now because of the feminist groups I'm a part of and because of the relative immediacy of the platform but for in depth analysis/conversation/evidence etc, this is a useful feminist discussion meeting point and I know other people use here as well as Overit etc.

There's also a fair amount of discussion on Twitter about stuff discussed here. Some of it by the usual Misogynistic Monitors but also by other people who pick up on discussion points. The thread from here about the Drag Queen event where the children were invited to 'open your hearts, your minds....and your legs' has been a bit of a hot topic.

I'd love to see the stats for traffic to this boards vs. Feminist Chat - anytime I venture over there for a look it's kind of tumbleweeds....

The funny thing is I have heard before that the Feminist boards drives a huge amount of traffic to MN in general, and a few years ago they did a survey asking users what topics they prefer and a load of people said 'feminist board', or 'came for the baby advice, stayed for the feminism' etc.
So this is one of the most popular sections on the whole site, and yet we are shunted off to a dingy corner and treated like the lepers of MN. It's like we're the dirty little secret they don't want to talk about.

To be fair, this board now comes up on top talk topics. It never used to.

The funny thing is I have heard before that the Feminist boards drives a huge amount of traffic to MN in general, and a few years ago they did a survey asking users what topics they prefer and a load of people said 'feminist board', or 'came for the baby advice, stayed for the feminism' etc.

That's correct. That was before the split, I doubt very much that the Feminist Chat Board drives traffic to MN as you say it is tumbleweed, despite certain people's best efforts the FWR S&G Board is one of the most popular sections on the site.

I've said this before but I'll say it again anyway.
I think MN have done a pretty good tight rope walk between providing a space for these discussions when they weren't allowed elsewhere, and ensuring that their moderation load stay reasonable and they don't find themselves subject to business level disrupting attacks.
Yes, they aren't pleasing everyone, but they have provided a space for information and discussion.
Furthermore having this as a separate board does mean it can act as a clear resource for anyone wanting to learn more, and it means that any other feminism issues people want to raise don't get lost under all the gender issue threads.