trans supporters and tactics

[applesandpears33]

I was posting on the now deleted thread about trans women who wanted to pee and it made me think about the tactics that are used by trans supporters. The "need to pee" one being obvious. Another used to be "be kind" but I think that is becoming a little outdated now. Ageism is another I've observed - whether it is calling people who support single sex spaces dinosaurs, or just pointing out as was done on the other thread that it tends to be slightly older women who support womens rights. Another is to call people phobic, because we associate the word with homophobic which is obviously abhorrent. Also the mention of DSDs. Any other tactics that I've missed?

Can I just add 'I don't see women's sports being disproportionately affected by trans athletes'. As if that's OK then.
Oh and Prof Winston is just a thickie who knows nothing about trans people.

“Intersex people are as common in the population as redheads.” There was a fact check program about this claim on the bbc in 2019 that debunked this claim but I can’t find it.

(Note, don’t Google “intersex redheads fact-check” Google thinks you want porn)

I looked on Twatter and there were a lot of comments saying 'well, you have a gender neutral loo at home / you and your household use one loo'. So utterly farfetched logic, not like I have a load of strangers and men traipsing through my house!

How can sport be a wedge issue when the whole point is that it is men and women challenging themselves at the peak of their capacity?

It's almost as though 'revealing' and 'wedge issue' aren't the same thing.

I can't roll my eyes enough when I see that 'gotcha!' posted on arguments. As if the single occupancy bathroom you use in your own house, with people known to you, is in any way comparable to a multi occupancy room with cubicles, populated by people who are complete strangers to you.

I also hate the term gender neutral, which is a deliberately obscuring of what such fabilities actually are, which is mixed sex.

Yes, all toilets ARE already gender neutral - you can be a woman who loves doing the dishes or a woman who plays football and STILL use the women's toilet. What the toilets are is sex neutral. But then neutral' itself is a misnomer when so many women feel uncomfortable around men, there is nothing neutral about that. So really they are 'mixed sex'. Which says alot. Do you want your teenage girl going to the toilet in a space where 'sex is mixing'? No.

They like to throw the word 'Nazi' around like confetti. I was speaking to a woman who got called that, who said she found it upsetting as she is both Jewish and had family members die in the Holocaust. 😡

I've been called it. When I said I was a Socialist he took pains to explain how Socialists and Nazis are exactly the same. 🙄 He littered his comments with 'LOL', so I said I didn't think mass murder was a laughing matter, but clearly he did, which shut him up.

Also claiming that the evil rad fems want to commit genocide against them. I'd like to know how that would work!

Or the variation - "If transwomen are so much better, why don't they win all the gold medals at the olympics".

Also the claim that hormone therapy reduces their physical advantage to nothing.

Being called a genital fetishist when you're taking about facilities that are designed for the use of said genitals is a strange attack.

There's a lot of gaslighting and bait and switching, which confuses and is intended to confuse. On the one hand we are meant to believe that trans people are facing a genocide and are unbelieveably vulnerable. On the other, trans people have always been among us and always will be, it's really not a big deal for them to use female resources and spaces, and we're just being silly little women for worrying about it.

The thing is, a lot (most?) of these people on twitter are idiots. Conversations with them bring zero value

it’s the back room operators that have made a lot of this shit happen. What are they saying to people with power that’s so persuasive?

In the real world, actual physical violence and threat. This has a strong chilling effect on all discussion anywhere and shouldn't be underestimated. The pen is not mightier than the sword.

-clownfish
-sex is actually a really complicated spectrum
-my friend has a trans child and they're really sweet

As PP have noted, the same tactics come up time and time again:

• Any reference to biological sex is a "dogwhistle"
• Feminists are funded by far-right US organisations and are equivalent to fascists
• Feminists have a "creepy" obsession with genitals and toilets
• Concern about men in women's spaces is exactly the same as homophobia in the 1980s, specifically Section 28
• Trans women are just like Black women, therefore feminists who object to men in women's spaces are racists
• Any concern about men in women's spaces, or questioning of the idea that trans women are women, shows a desire to eliminate trans people. Gender-critical feminism is therefore akin to genocide.
• Biological sex is "complicated"/sex is a spectrum/lots of people are intersex, etc etc

Because these get trotted out time and time again in a completely predictable fashion, I often wonder if there is a playbook somewhere that they're all reading from - did some person or organisation, in the manner of Denton's, list all the slurs and fallacious arguments that should be used to attack feminists? I find it hard to believe they grew up organically.

Suicide risk (which doesn't take into account suicide pre and post transition, as many regret transitioning and commit suicide).

Threat of violence (which comes from statistics taken from violence against transsexual Brazilian prostitutes).

The claim that waiting lists are so long (they may be but it disregards that you can have one 45 minute consultation and then be put on the path to transition).

Basically anything to do with statistics and numbers.

"trans panic"

I'm pleased to see that the mumsnet posse remains as offensive as ever

Who are these "backroom operators" I wonder? tell us more about your conspiracy theories.

Full Fact did fact check that, following a question on BBB Question Time:

fullfact.org/news/bbc-question-time-guildford/

The problem is what counts as intersex - it can be anything from 0.05% to 1.7%.

Lols usually bill gates and big Pharma when you scratch away at it! Which is ludicrous.

Arent there a number of Gender Critical activists who like to mention George Soros, (nudge nudge) ?

Oh yeah. There's another one...
White feminists
Right wing religious nuts
Racist
Anti semitic
Conspiracy theorists

Making it impossible to say that transwomen are men was a master stroke

the entire objection to transwomen in women’s single sex spaces is because they’re men

if you can’t say that because it’s ‘rude’ then you are completely hamstrung

it’s why not doing the pronoun dance is important

Ah yes, the trying to imply women are mentally unstable

straight out of the Victorian gentleman’s playbook

enjoying the real time demonstration from our visitors

I saw one particularly deluded TRA/MRA/incel claim that PCOS is an intersex condition. The female endocrine condition which affects approx. 1 in 5 women. So I can see how those with an agenda could argue artificially inflated numbers.