Kemi Badenoch through to next round

[InTheCanteen]

If you have a Conservative MP and want to protect the rights of women and safeguard children please email them TONIGHT and ask them to support Kemi.

Penny Mordaunt still the bookies favourite (and they aren't often wrong) but we need to let everyone know how dangerous it will be for this woman to become PM; I don't believe she has changed her mind for one moment.

Seriously?

No. Surprisingly enough I am not suggesting that we will revert to the 50s.

Think childcare, maternity rights, benefits, housing. That's where these values translate to policies that negatively impact women.

Not here. Honestly I had heard stuff but I thought it was the usual hysterical hear when women dare to speak out.

It's fucking terrifying.

Would the Red Wall vote for Sunak, who does understand economics?

TBF they're likely to do badly in the Red Wall now regardless of who the next leader is. None of the remaining candidates have shown any real commitment to 'levelling up' and most of the seats had the sort of majority that's at real risk of erasure whenever there's a swing against the incumbent government. I actually think the cost of living crisis is going to screw the Tories in the next GE regardless, it's so unusual for incumbents to get re-elected in that kind of situation. But assuming they want to at least attempt a win, in these circumstances they might be better focusing on the more traditional support base.

Good point. Feminism should absolutely argue that you should stand by your man for the sake of your kids. It's mad that isn't the logo.

You're welcome to call yourself what you please, I'm saying this board lost any shred of feminism a long time ago.

@Miffee did I suggest that somewhere, or are you using hyperbole to prove that left wing cannot argue, only insult?

This was in response to

@Clovefeld Are you saying I'm only allowed to think myself a feminist if I'm left-wing? Are centrists allowed, pretty please?

The problem with the use of the term family values is that it has connotations, based on previous usage. This is why it concerns many of us.

I disagree re this board losing feminism

It is a good place to chat about politics, even if it’s not always agreement

No. You've convinced me. I think we should remove children from single mothers and adopt them out to two parent families*. You just made a really good point. I have no argument against it. Its too feminist for me.

*As suggested my Micheal Herd at a Tory party conference in the 90s (the last time they were into family values).

I didn’t get the context for the term family values but what are Badenoch’s policies on maternity rights, childcare etc?

I think personally that a lot of single parents produce happier and more well rounded children with great work ethics. Yes we may be poorer but that's not everything. My dd is definitely more awesome for having been brought up in a one parent family, she even comments on the value of our set up herself quite often. I am glad I'm a single parent as I think it has been much better for dd.

And family values can mean families of all types, we're not a weak family, we are a very strong unit .

My issue with the stats is that you can produce stats to show that single parent kids do worse but you don't know how those same kids would have done had they continued in a two parent family. Perhaps even worse due to unhappiness ?

@Miffee Thank you, sarcasm on top of insults is the best way to persuade women left wing is prepared to have democratic debate, rather than just shout slogans at us and treat everyone who disagrees as thick.

People come on this board because there are often interesting, informed discussions about important aspects of life. There are some posters who are exceptionally able to argue patiently and lucidly.

Lots of people like me are here having wandered, due to realising the destructive nature of trans gender ideology creeping in to so many aspects of life; and because of how various subjects are covered in general. This may be without strictly being a ‘feminist’.

So for me, “You can’t be a feminist if you believe in families” does not mean much.

Traditionally the term family values I'm Conservative politics means using the mechanisms of the state to control behaviour to encourage the "correct" behaviour. For example a punitive benefit system. As women are the ones who actually have the children we will always always be disproportionately effected by these measures.

You combine these kinds of attitudes with neoliberalism and you have double the reason for not funding things that would support womens liberation like better access to childcare, education and housing.

Mate you are mistaking me for somebody who gives a fuck what you do now or in future. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just amusing myself.

I agree with you, and very likely would've done better through life if my mother left my abusive father.

The way to disprove this from the left point of view would be to compare the life outcomes for children from single-parent and 2-parent of similar income brackets.

If these comparisons exist and prove that it's only the income that makes this impact, then right wing'd have a much weaker argument, imo

I was was raised by a single mother from part way through my teens and I wish it had been sooner.

We were extremely worse off. We teetered on the border of absolute (as opposed to relative) poverty. I'm doing well in life now, as are my siblings. We were lucky though.

We live in a society where thousands of women face the choice of subjecting their kids to poverty or subjecting them to live in an abusive household. The most horrifying of all risk asseasments. This is womens oppression. This is patriarchy.

‘I thought this was a feminist board, surely to Christ I don't have to explain why right wing politicians who laud family values are bad news for women.’

Actually yes, you do. Please explain.

@Miffee I'm not talking about myself, you're writing on the public forum, where your attitude is visible to all.

Also, there is a name for people 'just amusing themselves' by being offensive and insulting to others online

‘Traditionally the term family values I'm Conservative politics means using the mechanisms of the state to control behaviour to encourage the "correct" behaviour. For example a punitive benefit system. As women are the ones who actually have the children we will always always be disproportionately effected by these measures.’

I get you now. It’s not rational to assume anyone saying ‘family is important’ intends to do anything like this unless they say so.

All of what?

@jgw1

The complexities you mentioned.

It's completely rational as that's what this rhetoric mean historically and currently. This isn't a secret. It's not a code that can be misinterpreted.

But even if it wasn't you tell me what else it means? When a politician says things it means something political. What do you think the policy outcome of "family values" may be?

Miffee · Today 16:28

“ScrollingLeaves · Today 16:21

Miffee · Today 16:11

“achillestoes · Today 16:00
No, they don’t. But I think it’s unreasonable to present Badenoch as scary because she thinks the family unit is important. Surely it is, most of the time.”

I thought this was a feminist board, surely to Christ I don't have to explain why right wing politicians who laud family values are bad news for women?

I had said:
”Do you mean children being part of families?”

“Or do you mean “family values” as a euphemism for women not being allowed to work, have mortgages in their own right, equal pay etc. ( all things women have been fighting for)?”

“Kemi Badenoch’s way of life does not exemplify the last description.”

“As for the first, since when shouldn’t children be part of families? Even single parents will try to make a family atmosphere at home, with extended family if possible, and with good friends and ‘aunties’, with school friends, with a local community? I don’t think that is un-feminist.”

Seriously?

No. Surprisingly enough I am not suggesting that we will revert to the 50s.

Think childcare, maternity rights, benefits, housing. That's where these values translate to policies that negatively impact women.

Why the “Seriously?”
What are you referring to?

• That I can’t seriously mean that a female MP with three children and a previous successful career is not likely to be telling women to go back to the kitchen when she speaks of family values?

or

• That I can’t seriously mean that even single families have ‘family values’ meaning people care for children within a secure extended family or community?

Where does living like the 1950s come into this?

Before you said KB talking about ‘family values’ leads somewhere dark. That is what I was responding to.

Now, you seem not to be referring to her mention of ‘family values’, but to her policies on housing, maternity rights and benefits?

Well, please list what her policies on these issues are and why you think they are wrong rather than saying there is something wrong with her because she espouses ‘family values’.