And this is exactly why Posie Parker is a liability

[MerchedBeca]

Yes, she's charismatic, has style and says things out loud we all wish we'd had the ovaries to say.

But sometimes, the shit she says is fucking dangerous. HOW can she say she's standing for women's rights and then blithely say that our access to abortion is a price worth paying? WTFucking hell?

This isn't about elites, or head girls or any of that shit that Posie chucks at women who disagree with her. We're seeing the biggest pushback on women's rights since before women's lib, we need to build a grass roots movement to fight this, urgently, and Posie's tactics are harming us.

So, this morning someone called Billy Bragg out on his stance on women's rights, and he came back directly with a screenshot of Posie taking shit about Roe vs Wade.

We are NEVER going to convince the left wing that this is an issue they need to get to grips with if the loudest voice they hear on this Posie who's very obviously courting the US religious right, and if every time someone tries to have a conversation with the left about this topic, we're all smeared by association with Posie and whatever shit she's said recently. I know she says she's not a feminist but that detail is lost our detractors. She's a gift to those who want to paint us all as ultra right wing bigots, and this matters.

Were you able to find the rest of what she said?
The bit at the bottom of the screenshot that begins "once we can..."

I don't know about anyone else but I'd like to know her entire post rather than a bit of it.

I can't seem to find it on that FB link.

I still have to read the entire thread, but I do not understand the logic of what Billy Bragg is saying. I mean to say, one woman saying something "wrong", entitles him to disrespect the lot of us?

Even if the greatest fool on earth or the most evil human in history were to say that people cannot change sex, that will never mean that people can change sex.

A huge and problematic part of woke cancel culture is this belief that people are either all good or all bad, and therefore anything, however small, said or written at any point in an individuals life that does not fit the correct narrative thus makes a person 'bad' forever.

Posie Parker is entitled to her opinions, many of which I agree with and some I don't. But she is a powerful voice who is not afraid to speak out and will not easily (ever) be silenced, and for that I have huge respect.

I didn’t understand your username - I think it is interesting that you have chosen it, after reading up….

The Rebecca Riots in Wales…
The rioters, often men dressed as women, took their actions against toll-gates, as they were tangible representations of taxes and tolls. The rioters went by the name of 'Merched Beca' which translates directly from Cymraeg as Rebecca's Daughters.
(It is from Wikipedia, but I did just want a idea of what may have been represented).

What is it with all this bloody 100% overlap or you are evil shite?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I disagree with the politics of the women in Conservatives for Women, for example, but I very much respect them as individuals and think they're doing great work.

What they are not doing is cosying up to people who actively campaign against women's rights like the US religious right.

It's OK to have boundaries against people who are actively against us.

Again, this video explains it well.

I agree that transwomen are not women.

But I also think Posie Parker is despicable.

What did the last part say?

The thing we all have in common is our sex. HTH.

No idea, it's not my screen shot.

that is interesting - I didn't know that when I admired it!

You don't agree with her views on abortion. That's fine. You're both entitled to your views.

But to claim PP is a 'liability' is just outrageous, really. She's done a huge amount to open up this debate. She's the only one of the prominent feminists who has from the start refused to use the wrong pronouns or give any quarter, and that has massively helped to push the debate to the GC side. She's the one who got bloody Brendan O'Neill to turn into a GC campaigner! Her 'be the billboard' campaign is incredible.

OP, you asked what she's accomplished. You yourself admit she has accomplished loads. What do you want? Group think? Everyone marching in lockstep? Women have different ideas and opinions. KJK brings her personality and style into the mix and it's very effective. Instead of slagging her off, why not do your own thing in the way you think is right? I'm sure you'd get lots of support, too. I'm sure KJK would support you.

No idea, it's not my screen shot.

If you don't know the provenance of what you are sharing how can you stand by it or use it as the foundation for an argument you want to make?

Sorry OP but it's time to grow up and stop worrying about what left-wing blokes think of you.

How old is the screenshot? I was under the impression that Kellie-Jay doesn’t post under Posie Parker. She posts on Facebook as Kellie-Jay or Standing for Women as her Posie Parker account is banned.

Happy to be corrected

Is it possible for self-appointed authorities to go ONE day without making their dislike of one woman evident? If we're going to play who is the better feminist, then I'm very happy to discuss a left-wing group who covered up sexual harassment and trashed women who dared to speak out. Shall we go there? Best make sure your hands are clean before pronouncing upon this issue.

So I have watched half of the video posted by @MerchedBeca The argument is that there are red lines in feminism and abortion is one. PP and I are similar age - she's younger. But raised at a time when easy access to abortion and even to the pill were not a given. Women were careful and still are in areas where easy access to abortion is not a given. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be a given. But it is naive and frankly unserious to deny that there is an ethical debate to be had around the issue of abortion, wherever you draw your red line. This is because a second life is in the mix. The video seems to make the point that arguing for different points of view is in some instances beyond the pale. It never is. One of the reasons we are in this mess right now is people stopped discussing and seeing 2 or more sides and being able to argue and think things through properly.

This. I, too, do not think we need to centre what Billy Bragg wants to hear on any issue concerning women. PP can have different opinions on issues concerning women, it does not dilute the central issue at all. If anyone on the left needs all women to agree on all things they approve of in order to support women only spaces (etc), then they are beyond help. PP has done amazing work, I am in awe of her efforts.

I would be interested to know what the desired outcome of this thread is. Suppose the women here are convinced by the argument - what is the proposed next step ?

Also interested in the answer to this.

As far as I can see women who like Posie's style can join Standing For Women and take part in actions. Highlighting local issues.

The Speaker's corners events are excellent for networking, getting ideas of how to get involved and also speaking to people on the streets. As well as highlighting how desperate the trans activists are to shut women up.

If you don't like Posie you are free to ignore her and organise other groups, events and campaigns.

I honestly can't see what your problem is.

dodgy politics

The whole point of democracy is that people are allowed to think different things - even things that any particular individual thinks are wrong.

What's the correct way to think then? What's NOT 'dodgy'? Who are you to say what politics is dodgy? Who gets to decide? Are you really keen on thought control because - spoiler alert - throughout history those who've sought to control the thoughts of others are universally evil.

I think she's great. I watched her video where she spoke about this. She said that she cannot split herself into enough parts to fight on all the different fronts. Her main fight is that women remain a sex class based only on our sex. She has said she is pro choice numerous times and like me, used to vote for Labour too. She's also reiterated that she isn't a feminist. She appeals to working class women like me who left school at 16 to go to work. I know nothing of feminist theory or books or writers. I didn't go to university and debate any feminist issues. I just know that as a woman, we need certain rights to be retained.

As for making comments about head girls etc, some very prominent feminists started on her first. Why is she held to a higher standard so that she can't reply without criticism and they are not criticised at all?

Well said @DialSquare !

@MerchedBeca But Posie Parker and those who follow her are making it so much easier for people like him to imply we're all right wing bigots.

Quite honestly, any and everything is considered extreme right wing so I don't even pay attention to this anymore. Anything that was normal even 10 years ago is suddenly 'extreme' right wing.

Don't want your children learning about transgenderism in kindergarden? Right Wing bigot.

Think men shouldn't compete in women's sports categories? Right Wing Bigot

Don't agree with Drag Queen Story Time? Right wing bigot.

Think people have the right to choose what goes into their bodies? Right Wing Bigot.

Think there's too much sexual messaging by the film and music industry to children? Right Wing Bigot

Anti-abortion stances aren't new. I remember debating the topic in school in the 80s. Framing anyone who has that view as a Right Wing Bigot is new, but predictably so.

I can also remember when being a christian and left leaning wasn't considered incompatible.

Posie is not a feminist and most women don't identify as feminist and if she did she would be far less effective and not have as much reach. Besides she is her own person.

However 'Feminism' that cuts out all right leaning women with right leaning views and brands them as bigots perhaps should openly state that it is not inclusive to all women and call itself something else.

.

PP is completely pro-women and girls and completely anti-feminist. She's very up front about this - has no interest or time for feminist theory or history.

That's all fine, and she is an incredibly orator, campaigner and organiser, she truly is.

But do worry that her (self-professed) naivety about feminism means that she can't see how she's being used by the US right wing groups that she believes that she's using as a mouthpiece for her views.

I’ve only watched one of KJK’s videos and I don't think I made it to the end. She appeals to a different demographic.

But this will never fail to amuse me and for that I’m very grateful.

I would imagine that KJK and I would differ in some of our views. But its a bit of a shit move to post a cropped screenshot whose provenance you don't know, to take a swipe at another women. Especially when it's done at the behest of a misogynist like bragg