And this is exactly why Posie Parker is a liability

[MerchedBeca]

Yes, she's charismatic, has style and says things out loud we all wish we'd had the ovaries to say.

But sometimes, the shit she says is fucking dangerous. HOW can she say she's standing for women's rights and then blithely say that our access to abortion is a price worth paying? WTFucking hell?

This isn't about elites, or head girls or any of that shit that Posie chucks at women who disagree with her. We're seeing the biggest pushback on women's rights since before women's lib, we need to build a grass roots movement to fight this, urgently, and Posie's tactics are harming us.

So, this morning someone called Billy Bragg out on his stance on women's rights, and he came back directly with a screenshot of Posie taking shit about Roe vs Wade.

We are NEVER going to convince the left wing that this is an issue they need to get to grips with if the loudest voice they hear on this Posie who's very obviously courting the US religious right, and if every time someone tries to have a conversation with the left about this topic, we're all smeared by association with Posie and whatever shit she's said recently. I know she says she's not a feminist but that detail is lost our detractors. She's a gift to those who want to paint us all as ultra right wing bigots, and this matters.

She's sold a huge amount of T-shirts

oooh they’re big mad about that aren’t they! 🤣

I'm utterly lost
is Posie anti abortion?

Posie Parker gets the sunlight in on the nonsense. Better than most. And then we have a debate about a range of issues where we may disagree. Because we're grown ups. Stonewall stopped us even having a debate about anything. Good for her.

This is bollocks, sorry.

1. Who gives a shit what misogynists like Billy Bragg think?
2. You didn't even post the whole of what Posie says so we can't actually see what she thinks
3. Posie's entitled to her opinions, anyway. Lots of women are not pro-choice or would prefer more stringent rules around abortion. It's hardly the most 'out there' view she could have.
4. Posie has brought the issues involved in this to the fore of public consciousness. Every time a person says a woman is an 'adult human female' where do you think they got that phrasing from? Yes, it's the dictionary definition, but it was PP who used her own money to post it on a billboard and start a huge public debate rolling
5. If you don't like Posie, that's fine. Do your own thing. Trying to sow division is not helpful, though.

Datun, my point isn't that I think we can persuade Billy Bragg, he's quite plainly far too entrenched. Nor that I think FWR should listen to him.

His comments are just an example.

My point is, Posie makes is easy for people like him to take cheap shots at feminists, dismissing us as right wing bigots. He has a platform, and it's not just him, it's everyone who wants to discredit us. This matters.

Posie's comments are a gift to those who want to discredit us, can't you see that?

Some people may have forgotten that Communist countries used abortion as the common means of birth control. When I was growing up it was not unusual for young women to have several abortions by mid-twenties. That is not right either.

I'm also really horrified by the constant dismissal of views by some Christians that abortion limit should be lower as something unacceptable. People are allowed their fucking views, and to advocate for changes in laws in accordance with those views. The pro-choice campaigners do a better job to persuade the public that the law, as it stands here, is correct. All the left-wing scare tactics of 'it could happen here' are crap, we're not the US.

I would be interested to know what the desired outcome of this thread is. Suppose the women here are convinced by the argument - what is the proposed next step ?

Everyone should turn their back on her and disavow her frequent success at drawing attention to the issue ? OK - but then what ? How will that have advanced the defence of womens rights ? Which people will be convinced of the necessity that would otherwise not have been ?
The left that do not support womens rights are not hanging back because of a single successful demagogue (in their eyes, not mine).

I find the proposition to be nothing but an attempt to copy Cardinal Richelieu:
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."

Nonsense. Whether GC or TRA we all know that abortion, sexual and domestic violence, low pay, being lumbered with caring, underfunding health, street harassment, poverty and misogyny are issues that disproportionately or exclusively affect women. Prioritising 'defining women' over immediate life and death issues (and for 99% of the women involved GC and TRAs happily agree are women) isn't any feminism I recognise.

@MerchedBeca - gotta say I love your user name :)

In terms of effectiveness of PP and her campaigning. Here's one thing - her "Woman - adult human female" campaign is cited by Keira Bell has being the point at which she considered her transition and began to see cognitive dissonance. Then began a new life phase that is happier and began courageously to campaign so that other youngsters could avoid the trap, that the adults in her own life didn't guard her against.

@MerchedBeca

So what do you want? Her to STFU? Women to cancel her? What?

I'm not mad at her at all, I've got a huge amount of respect for her as a businesswoman and marketeer.

"Be the billboard" is inspired.

is Posie anti abortion

nope. Thread is transparent shit stirring. TRAs try this a lot.

@CrowUpNorth

With respect, I think you’re wrong. The way women are being treated in this debate is a symptom. Women should be allowed to participate fully in public life, saying what they think, saying things other people disagree with, putting their own interests front and centre. Like men are allowed to. But we’re not. Women are treated, in this debate just as in the abortion debate, as if they owe everyone else something first. It’s incredibly important that we treat these things as red lines: we won’t be called “bleeders” or “menstruators” or “womb carriers”, and told to “STFU and die in a grease fire” because once we allow people to talk about us and to us like this without resistance, we allow them to do anything they like.

Very Much This ^^

OP other than saying you disagree with Posie I’m struggling to see what you would like to achieve with your post?

If you don't have expression of diversity of thought in society then you don't have freedom.

I'm reading about pre-2nd world war Germany at the moment and how they made kids in schools chant anti-Jew mantras. At first people didn't agree, but then over time they suppressed that and went along with it. Suppressing different opinions and resistance in terms of thought and opinion was the first step.

I agree with Posie that you can't fight for abortion if you can't describe those who potentially need it - women - and the Democrats can't name women so they're a lost cause. Obama, Clinton and Biden could have at least tried to enact the right to abortion in federal law and didn't, which tells you all you need to know about the Dems. If anyone's a liability it's them you know being a political party in the actual country this is happening in rather than a single woman in an entirely unrelated country.

I don't agree with Posie about lots of things but she's never said she's representing me - in fact she's pretty clear that she represents herself, her organisation and no-one else. She's not our head girl.

If people can't understand that they've got bigger problems than Posie affecting 'PR' or whatever it is we're supposed to be worried about in terms of 'liability'.

Posie's comments are a gift to those who want to discredit us, can't you see that?

"If I just lose that extra stone...maybe get a new haircut...try some new make up looks...if I don't talk too much and say stupid things...if I sit daintily and only eat a salad, make sure I don't drink too much and give him a showing up - maybe then he'll like me?"

Oh, grow up. Jesus!! 🥱

It isn't nonsense. Letting it pass now will mean it is all over. The thin end of the wedge. If you can't define woman - there are no "women's rights". I don't know how this is not obvious.

I think they want a written apology for her sharing a platform with Heritage Foundation, once, which is so, so much worse than than sharing a platform with, say, Hamas

With respect OP - this appears to be your second thread on Mumsnet? Why are you so exercised by BillyB's misogynistic comments about women to create yet another thread about how PP is the worst thing ever for feminism?

Every week we get another arrival descending on us to berate the disparate group of women who post on here for our failings in not ducking PP in the nearest pond or failing to condemn her on every post we make?

It's exhausting.

This thread is an excellent example of why social media “debate” is not for me

Maybe you need to be a bit more Posie, Beca, and care less about what men other people think and focus more on what you think is important.

And unfortunately, not for the first time.

But Posie Parker and those who follow her are making it so much easier for people like him to imply we're all right wing bigots.

Grow a spine and stop worrying about how people who are trying to remove your human rights might misinterpret or misrepresent your words.

Feminists continue with the fight for women's rights that are for all women. Even women who are anti abortion. Even women who recant under threat of their livelihood. Even the women you don't like.
All women.

Friendly reminder for the folx who need it!

the vast majority of all humans who have ever lived on earth know that men can’t be women.

agreeing on this is like agreeing grass is green (the colour of the sky is more disputable than the immutability of sex!) and does not mean agreeing on anything else.

it’s only the people who disagree on this matter who march in lockstep, because they are mindless conformist morons in the grip of an authoritarian ideology which has caused them to lose their critical thinking faculties!

Hope that helps!