gender woo and voting

[dropthevipers]

Is party stance on gender woo a deal breaker for you? I am/have been a center left type my whole life, would never previously have even considered voting tory-but I cannot vote for parties that spout manifest bollocks. How about you? Or you friends?

I don’t need friends, I need representation.

It’s the all fluff, no substance “we’re a friend to < insert group currently worth pandering to based on blue tick twitters’ current raging >” bollocks that got a large chunk of the globe into this mess.

I owe them nothing.

They aren’t my mates with a combined history and affection, leading to the overlooking of a few major flaws for the sake of the relationship as whole.

They are standing as potential political representatives asking for a vote. They get no special “we go back a long way, and I know it looks bad, but really their heart is the right place” affection.

That kind of romantic, fluffy, “properly female” vision of politics, long expected of me cos vagina, died. Right when I realised they’d throw me, my kind and our kids under any number of buses rather than give up on their self-image of “we are the goodies, they are the baddies”.

Why doesn't he count? He is responsible for police harassment of women for speaking out in defence of women's rights @achillestoes. He is a sitting Conservstive member of the Conservative government in power.so why does his assault on women's rights not count?

@Manderleyagain, I don't think Crispin Blunt is the only Conservative MP to report women.

The thing is that to protect womens rights you need to be clear what a woman is.

Right now, like it or not the Tories have (with a few execrations that I don't think will win the leadership contest) been the only party to hold the line (albeit belatedly).

As a pp said, if we get a PM whose going to strengthen womens rights and push back on gender ideology even for a few years, that's a good thing.

We can't change the govt at this point, but the fact this IS a leadership election issue is encouraging. They understand it's a key voting point.

If that's true from the Tories it's doubly true for Labour.

Realistically, the Tories are not going to lose many votes for backing away from self id.

BUT they stand to gain them from single issue voters.

For Labour, losing a swathe of female support is something they can ill afford and realistically how many of their voters would vote Tory in retaliation?

So it's a calculation for Labour on how many votes they'd lose to LibDem/Greens on this one issue if they back off self id and frankly I don't think it would be that many.

Their problem is the capture within the party and if any leader has the balls to change policy. Otherwise queue years of embarrassing footage of squirming labour MP's denying what a woman is.

Toobig which party would you like to win the next GE?

If it’s Labour what do you think about their direction re self ID

@TooBigForMyBoots

Merely because he’s so discredited by his defence of a man who sexually assaulted a child, and is standing down at the next election.

So his weaponising of the police against women defending women's rights doesn't count because he defended a paedophile? WTAF @achillestoes?🤯

He is responsible for trying to destroy women. His vote for our next PM counts. His woman hating actually counts much more because as a Conservative MP he has the power of government.

Women don't. Labour/Lib dem/Green etc MPs don't.

@TooBigForMyBoots

His vote counts. He’s just no longer particularly important otherwise. He’s done.

@BreadInCaptivity I think the top chunk of labour have done those calculations, but they also have to factor in their own political survival if they present said calculations. You can’t pretend to not see your Most Loyal Pack of Hounds ripping chunks out of non believers for years without being well aware that kind power tripping is addictive. They know their own arses will be minced within minutes of suggesting even a bit of “quasi-fake heretic, just for the votes”.

Push comes to shove being shadow something or other fancy is a better deal than Social Siberia.

Especially when you can rely on “the baddies” to do the dirty work of righting the ship anyway. All while you act all clean-hands and ”horrified” about somethingsomethingphobia. Making vague promises about putting it all right “when we come to power” ! Then around election times focusing on the newest right-on trend cos thankfully the old right-on trend is no longer a clunking big mill stone around your neck.

It all feels horribly familiar. I’d like to blame deja vu, but I think I spent far too long being wilfully blind. Because I valued “being one of the goodies” too. And I strongly suspect I placed a higher value on that feeling than the grunt work of evaluating workable solutions for real problems in actual human lives.

Fuck me. I thought epiphanies would be all shining light and Aha ! Not feeling shit because you’ve been a “keeping up appearances” chump.

Showed what a massive grifter she is.

I cannot stand the authoritarian, sanctioned, infiltration of a falsely based and damaging ideology, especially in schools girl guiding etc. My rage about it is huge. I don’t think anyone who promotes it should be in charge, and I don’t trust them.

He's done.

No he's not. He is actively pursuing an anti-women, TRA agenda and destroying our rights. Right now. When it matters.

My last message was in response to this^^.

LadyWithLapdog* · 09/07/2022 14:45
This hasn’t even been on the radar when Labour was last in power. This is all Tory stuff.

I do think that it is only quite recently that anyone began to fully understand what had been going on, or the implications. So in that sense I would agree that it was not on the radar when Labour was last in power.

As someone has already pointed out, though, Labour brought in the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and without fully thinking ahead to what it could lead to. To be fair. it partly came about through an EU Human Rights directive.

Also, I think I read that Tony Blair encouraged it so that same sex couples could marry - if one of the couple had a GRC then they would no longer be same ‘sex’ - that gender trumping sex idea that is now so clearly problematic. It is easier though to see it in hindsight obviously.

Can anyone else comment? I cannot remember where I saw that about T B wanting to facilitate same sex marriage before it was legal.

The votes:
(my bold)

Support for the bill in the House of Commons was split broadly down party lines. At both the second and third readings (i.e. before and after amendments), all Labour Party, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru and Scottish National Party votes were in favour of the bill all Ulster Unionist and Democratic Unionist Party votes were against.[7][8] Conservative Party MPs were split on the issue and the party leadership did not issue a whip mandating MPs to take a particular stance on the bill, instead allowing its MPs a free vote.[9] 25 Conservative MPs voted in favour and 22 against the bill at its second reading, and 20 voted in favour and 39 voted against the bill at its third reading. Less than half of the Conservative Party's 166 MPs participated in either vote.[9]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Recognition_Act_2004

How much public awareness of this bill was there at the time?

A lot of the worst damage has been through groups like Stonewall, The Beaumont Society (?), and Mermaids, with people thoughtlessly complying, or unaware.

But now that people have been noticing, Labour. the Liberal Democrats, and the Greens have refused to listen, entrenched themselves, and in some cases behaved appallingly to any dissenting voices.

The Conservatives have behaved appallingly to dissenting voices.

No, I think it's an Americanism and a big mistake.

Who did crispolin blunt report to the police?
I can find that he made a complaint about the gc crime commissioner and she had to face some kind of panel, but otherwise all the Google hits are taken up with his defending the sex offender.

I'm fairly left wing so historically have voted Labour lib dem or Green. I am quite put off by the left refusing to acknowledge what a woman is. I dont think I can quite bring myself to vote Conservative even though they are generally better on this issue they are worse on so many others. I'm an nhs worker and they are destroying the nhs for one. Not doing enough for cost of Iiving crisis (the expected energy bill increases are scary). Too corrupt, more so than the other parties.
Even if I was to be a single issue voter my current tory MP is one of the ones who have swallowed gender ideology. So I'm praying someone on the left gets some sanity else I might have to spoil my ballot

Yes, it's the most important issue for me.

I've previously voted Lib Dem in most general elections, Green in European Parliament elections, and was planning to vote Labour this time.

Obviously all of that is out of the window now.

A couple of times I voted for Louise Irvine for the National Health Action Party. It's a shame she isn't running anymore because she is sensible on everything, including women's rights. I'd love to have the option of voting for her again.

^TooBigForMyBoots* · Today 02:05
The Conservatives have behaved appallingly to dissenting voices.

They have, but I was referring to a particular issue.

What is the context you had in mind here?

Single issue voter here -- and the issue is the environment. When you look at how screwed we are with that, everything else pretty much fades into insignificance.

Not a single one of the Tory candidates so far has even mentioned the climate some even want to roll back Net Zero which is frankly terrifying.

whoops, those were meant to be dashes, not strikethrough

@Squiblet

Truss mentioned the environment in her launch video.

It's too late to do anything about the environment. There's no going back and it's foolish to pretend that China or North America or Brazil are going to take radical action. Things will change and humans will adapt. It'll take the best part of another century for things to reach a crisis. So in the meantime raise your children to be dentists and doctors and IT specialists and skilled construction workers and encourage them to emigrate to New Zealand, which may be one of the least-affected areas of the world.

In the meantime, I'd like to make sure that while we wait for climate armageddon, women still have the right to use single-sex loos and to meet in single-sex groups.

Things will change and humans will adapt. It'll take the best part of another century for things to reach a crisis. So in the meantime raise your children to be dentists and doctors and IT specialists and skilled construction workers and encourage them to emigrate to New Zealand, which may be one of the least-affected areas of the world.

Are you for real?

Any more appallingly than Labour has behaved towards Rosie Duffield and Luciana Berger? Labour's banned Filia, LGB Alliance and Labour Women's Declaration from having stalls at the conference. And that's all I can think of in the two minutes I have to post here. Other examples will occur as soon as I post.