Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

[ImpossibleDrum]

Julie Bindel

You may hate me for this (well, some of you at least, but I cannot BELIEVE that many of you on here are deciding who is good or bad for PM because of the trans issue ALONE. I mean, I KNOW it is an urgent issue, but so are a million other things right now!!

Sharron Davies

I agree with your too Julie. There’s a bigger picture right now with people potentially unable to feed or keep their kids warm this winter. We can keep bringing the sunlight to other issues.

Don't forget Mordaunt tried to bring in some TRA shit by stealth and the Lords stopped it. Tories can't be trusted

One in four families in this country are single parent families.

Eighty per cent of these single parents are WOMEN. MOTHERS.

It is very clear that we are suffering disproportionately because of the economic crisis.

And consequently our kids.

There have been enough calls for SiNGLE PARENTS TO BE ACCORDED PROTECTED STATUS.

IT IS ABOUT TIME THIS WAS PUSHED FORWARD.
www.singleparentrights.org/

This is not OFF TOPIC we are a way bigger group than trans people. And this issue affects our kids so if you count those in - we are a HUGE group..

I thought it was an odd position at this time because most of us aren't choosing a PM. Only Tory Party members are choosing one.
It struck me as misguided classism. Bindel was implying only women who don't care about 'real' issues would prioritise being GC.
But in RL, women living in poverty; women who are part of minority groups (whether race, disability, etc); women in the care system, health system or justice system - they are the most impacted by GC issues and the erasure of women in law. Middle class and upper class women can buy themselves into single sex spaces. Women on the margins are losing services and funding precisely because of gender ideology.
If a party or politician will lie about biological sex, it is a good barometer of whether they can be trusted, whether they can be bought. It's not just about sex. It's about integrity.
Personally I'm not voting for a party or politician that doesn't know my sex. We need people in the public sphere saying no to gender ideology. This can't and shouldn't be consigned to being a feminist issue. Codifying and promoting disassociation from reality is dangerous. This isn't a time to hide denial under 'put other issues first' bullshit.

Just can't vote for anyone who says trans women are women. If they can lie about that, and it affects 51% of the population, they can and will lie about ANYTHING.

I 100% agree with this.

Reality bites when you are in government (well as long as you are not Boris)

It's quite striking that just as we have all become much more polarised in our general political discourse, especially on social media, a lot of us have become a little less polarised in our party allegiances. The two party system has become so utterly fucked, and there are so many existential problems with both the Tories and the Labpur Party that it is becoming harder and harder to give allegiance to either of them. Instead, we need to be more lightfooted, to be prepared to create and support various temporary 'alliances of the sane', 'alliances of the competent', 'alliances of the honest'.
There is no way on God's earth that I would support the Tory party. But say there was a resurgence of the relatively principled Tories that were ousted when BJ first took over? Say they adopted a constructive relationship with Lib Dems and elements of the Labour Party in order to get electoral reform or to defeat some gender bullshit)? I would take those groupings on their merits and support them insofar as it seemed to me to be net-beneficial to the issues I cared about.

Because gender critical women hav been forced off of so many left-wing platforms, and because there has been so much disinformation about ther alleged solidarity with the right, it is natural that there should be some angsty discussion about whether we should or can support parties whose general economic and social policies we abhore. But there is a danger that the discussion overplays a dichotomy.

In reality there will be lots of small practical decisions in which we weigh up GC issues against other issues. That's going to happen across the board now that the parties are necrotic. Especially, I think, in relation to getting voting reform.

Of course they are right - it's why there are countless threads on here with us discussing who the fuck we could vote for at the next election. If the trans issue was the only thing anyone cared about, most people here would easily just vote Tory with no hesitations.

The problem a lot of us have is that we have watched in horror at the absolute bullshit that Labour politicians have spouted in order to desperately hold up a ridiculous ideology- David Lammy saying one can grow a cervix, Dawn Butler saying babies are born without a sex, Lisa Nandy saying that male rapists should go in a female prison if that's where they 'feel most comfortable'.

I don't think any of them believe it, they are just saying it because they have backed themselves into an ideological corner. And that is pretty terrifying and not what I want from a government either. Because if they are willing to make themselves look like complete incompetent bellends on this issue, what else are they willing to do?

But the Tories......? Well, where to start really!

Well the good news for them is I don't centre 'the Trans issue', I centre Women's issues and women's rights. Despite the volume of TRA voices and the disproportionate influence they have the Trans population are a tiny minority. Minorities shouldn't be discriminated against and absolutely need the same rights as everyone else but they shouldn't they have all the power. Women on the other hand make up over 50% of the population. Sharon and Julie are sadly falling into the trap of believing it's all about the Trans, it really isn't - it's all about women. And when I say say women I mean adult human females, however they identify, what ever label they put on themselves.

I agree with them too.
Keir Starmer has a track record whilst DPP of actually making changes to benefit women, around rape prosecutions. Many of which have since been undone by the Conservative government, leading to a situation where rape is effectively decriminalised.
Women, especially single parents, are disproportionately bearing the brunt of the cost of living rise and the social care shortages. The Conservatives actively put in place policies that cause this.

Until Labour actually state they will change the law to TWAW I'll vote for them. I actually think over the last couple of years it's becoming increasingly obvious what impact a TWAW law would have, and its become a mainstream issue. So I doubt any law change would happen.

Also let's not forget this whole TWAW/self ID policy direction was set by Maria Miller, a Conservative, when she was in charge of Women and Equalities.

Anyone who vote Conservative solely because "they know what a woman is" is not a feminist. Yes, the Conservatives know what a woman is and they use that knowledge to the detriment of women.

It's not the fact that a potential PM says TWAW. It's the lack of criticality, the casual disregard for women, the wild-eyed passion, the refusal to listen, to engage in discussion and, quite simply, to provide reasons which seem to go with the position. These are not qualities I want to see in the person running the country.

There are many other reasons not to support someone, but a refusal to acknowledge material reality is a clincher.

I honestly believe that if Labour dropped this self-id, men can have a cervix crap, and all the ridiculousness that comes with it, they would stand a far better chance in the general election.

People really want to be able to vote for them!

Also some posters on here need to look at who Julie Bindel is and the work she does before suggesting she doesn't understand what she's saying.

People have always voted on single issues. People vote "anyone but X". People uninterested in party politics vote on local issues (being a good constituency MP is sadly underrated). People vote tribally because that's how they were brought up to vote. People vote because they like "the cut of X's jib/wouldn't buy a used car from Y".There are many swing voters.

I hate being lectured on how I should/shouldn't vote, especially by those in the public eye. The polling booth is anonymous and private. You don't have to justify your decision to anyone but yourself.

Yes, it's either a horrifying lack of critical thinking or, they understand it perfectly but just want to look good to certain people.

Either way, they are not general qualities I want in a government.

Wes Streeting did start to give a bit of hope a few months ago, I think he gets it.

I agree with them, I would never vote Tory even if their manifesto said that they would repeal the GRA (dreaming, I know!). The more difficult choice is whether to vote LD (the only potential challenger to our Tory MP) or spoil my ballot. I’m a natural Labour voter but they can’t win where I live (and they’d give me the same dilemma as the LDs!).

But the great thing about a democracy is that we don’t all have to agree. Some women can choose a single issue, some can look at a wider picture. Neither is right or wrong, just different.

We are all entitled to voice our opinions, especially here but some people have stronger personalities and are willing and able to confront the pushy Man-in-a-frock in the loo.
Some like me are a little timid IRL. I want to keep the protections and conventions that I grew up with.
That means not being browbeaten in everyday life so it is a thread that runs through everything, it affects my working and it certainly affects family and poverty.

It’s true that I wouldn’t vote for Putin if he promised me he would recognise the reality of female existence and protect children. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t vote for Javid, because... well, it’s obvious, really.

Exactly this for me. If you can lie about something that is so obviously (a) untrue (b) unfair and (c) uncomplicated, I'm not going to trust you to run my dishwasher let alone the country.

Scared of people acting out within your own party? Well, how are you going to manage China?

Scared of speaking the truth? Then how are you going to tackle climate change or the actual causes of social inequality? (Hint: you won't find the answer down the back of your postmodernist sofa)

I see the gender issue as a massive red flag. Similarly, politicians who have spoken out on this specific matter, when it's unfashionable, have shown integrity and an ability to think critically. It's been very eye opening across the political spectrum. I'll never again affiliate myself with one party.

I mean I don’t disagree with them. Especially when it comes to elections not everyone can afford to be a single issue. Plenty of people agree with the tories about TWANW, but they equally don’t believe the tories are actually doing anything for women, and/or can’t afford more years of austerity.

If anyone wants to be a single issue voter on this, or many other issues that’s up to them, but personally I think there’s just so much more at stake.

I definitely read it as a plea for nuance and balancing up the pros and cons. When in doubt about the leader or manifesto at election time then looking at your actual candidate is good. My Labour MP is notably silent on the trans issue. Coward? Or like the lot of them, a person who wants power?
What Keir lacks is a forceful and informed enforcer. Blair had Alastair Campbell and Peter Mandelson who rammed home to Labour what policies would get them elected, the Tories went for Boris for exactly the same reason - no policies but bags of personality that got the vote.
Chasing youth votes is essentially a losing strategy as there aren’t that many of them and they don’t reliably turn out. Weirdly and probably for one a v short blip, Momentum did it for Corbyn but obviously not enough.
However, a sop to the TRA lobby is easy - far easier than health/social care or the economy.
When it comes to it, I’ll be trying to centre women in all aspects and hoping that my male MP doesn’t see them as a side show

I'm guessing a lot of vocal activists are positioning themselves against the inevitable "you are all right wing bigots " line that will come their way from TRAs and Labour people.

This.

If a politician won't say biological truth and state facts about it, purely because they're too afraid of a shout group, how the hell will he or she have the courage to stand up against anything? Selling half the population down the river isn't confidence inspiring. I want brave politicians, principled politicians, debating, open to conversation politicians. I can find cowards anywhere, why would I vote for them?

I agree with them. But then, I've been an activist for a long time and the other issues that concern me have not gone away...

well said

I know she called Posie Parker a "thick feck"

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