Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

[ImpossibleDrum]

Julie Bindel

You may hate me for this (well, some of you at least, but I cannot BELIEVE that many of you on here are deciding who is good or bad for PM because of the trans issue ALONE. I mean, I KNOW it is an urgent issue, but so are a million other things right now!!

Sharron Davies

I agree with your too Julie. There’s a bigger picture right now with people potentially unable to feed or keep their kids warm this winter. We can keep bringing the sunlight to other issues.

Has anyone said they shouldn't express their views? They have, as is their right, and many here disagree with them.

This!

I can't vote for anyone who says TWAW because either their beliefs about the nature of reality don't line up with mine at all, or they're utterly spineless. Neither is something I'd want in a PM.

Julie is free to vote (or to support politicians) based on the issues that matter most to her, and so is everyone else. Being told that this isn't important or that it's something that can be sorted out later isn't an argument I agree with. Women's issues have very often been sidelined that way.

If Boris had thought saying TWAW would have made him popular then he would have. Its incredibly naive to believe that there was ever any integrity in anything he has said.

I do think Keir has taken the wrong line here however.

Well, they're right... there are lots of important issues. Fortunately in the immediate question of who may become the next PM there are only one or two who've clearly ruled themselves out eg Mordant. Most of the others know what a woman is. So yes, surely none of us are judging who out of the available candidates would be the best (or least worst) pm based on 'the trans issue alone'?

I agree. He's just saying it to be popular and it's not like it really matters right? The people paying the price for this are not the important people (men). So what if women get no rape support ,get assaulted in prison, lose the ability to record their oppression. They're only women right?

Yes we are. And isn't that brilliant?

Maya has proved that in court

No one is starving?

maybe no one you know.

OP I agree with them. I am GC and have been called TERF a million times but there are bigger issues.

How on earth could you read my post as supporting Boris?

I like what they’re saying. Sometimes we can get so caught up in an issue that we stop to look at the whole picture, or maybe that’s just me.

One of the many issues around women’s rights & gender theory is freedom of speech, we’re all individuals with our own views and we should be able to express them however we want. I’m not angry with the Labour Party, I’m really disappointed but if there was an election tomorrow I’d still vote for them. I’m not wasting my vote, I’d never vote Tory so I don’t have much choice.

If Keir Starmer changed tack and talked about fairness toward women and respected the need for female only spaces I’d not only rejoin Labour, I’d be out canvassing.

I agree, if he actually believed it at least he would be standing by his convictions.

He doesn't believe it and yet isn't strong enough to stand up against his own party, so I have no faith in his standing up for our country.

We need freedom of speech. The Labour Bristol Council have just passed a motion saying we can think but not say GC beliefs

Show me the action then?

The Tories have been in Govt got 12 years. Was this happening on Labour's watch?

All i have heard is words.

I agree with them. There are other issues affecting women and you’re quite privileged if this is your main concern and not feeding your family, affordable childcare, issues with carers etc

If Keir Starmer changed tack and talked about fairness toward women and respected the need for female only spaces I’d not only rejoin Labour, I’d be out canvassing.

If he started 'talking' about it I still wouldn't trust Labour anymore as would think its just a front given their hard line so far. It's absolutely shit as I feel completely politically homeless just now, especially with the shitshow that is the SNP!

Anyone who says TWAW is either a liar or deluded.

Not someone who should be running the country, whichever of those applies. But I think most are just liars.

☝This.

I’m not convinced the Tories are right on this issue for the right reasons - I don’t believe they are supporting women, I think they are doing this because they are anti trans and reason matters because I think they are anti every minority and vulnerable member of society and I can’t support that - it affects everyone - women too. Not not about being kind. The Tories will fuck over anyone who isn’t the fittest and the strongest.

I think Keir Starmer is trying not to piss anyone off hence why he comes across as bland. I don’t think it’s a bad plan as infighting in the left would not help him even if that makes him seem weak to some.

I agree with them too. Even if I think women's rights and self-Id is hugely important, it is not a single-issue vote for me. I accept that for others, it is, and that's fine. I don't think it's a one-way street that if self-ID is accepted, it can never be reversed, for example; I'm not even sure that it would necessarily come into force with labour in power either, despite what they say now. And as for the question about politicians lying, yes absolutely - I think they all do. And while that might make the unfit for office, we don't really have a choice, so have to vote for the overall package that fits best, and for me, that doesn't mean conservative. I think that most of the conservatives resigning this week aren't doing it because they care that much about honesty or integrity, but because they've made a calculated decision about which way to jump to keep their voters and their support and ultimately their job. They all lie. I don't think the Tories support women any more than the other parties.

But that's my choice, and others are free to choose differently.

To me it means he's weak if his willing to lie to make people like him. A disappointment and weak people shouldn't be in charge of the country.

Oh dear! Two women deciding women need to change their thinking! Like no woman ever can think of t or more things at the same time. Can never have a number of issues they care about and yet choose to discuss them one at a time.

Yay! I am a fuckwit because having a PM who knows what a woman is holds some importance for me and will influence my vote.

It's not the ONLY thing. It is A thing! Fuck - I am Nuanced!

That's nice. Fwiw, I'm never going yo vote Tory but as a genuinely poor full time carer on CA I'd like to know how eg Labour will make things financially better for me, especially after Reeves declaring they will crack down on benefits payments meaning I either slip further into poverty or 2 very disabled older people have no one to care for them.

I know it's derailing the thread but this unfounded Labour Good narrative is ridiculous because every policy aim they've had for the last decade or so has either been to reduce welfare for the poorest or to ignore the problems. Same with the Tories under Cameron's ideology of course but things have changed. This year I'll be getting £1200 off the Tories for the cost of living, every penny of which will go into the leccy and gas meters. Wasn't Labour's plan to give about £90? It's easy for people who are relatively comfortable to spout the lazy virtue-signalling that Labour are better, plus it makes them feel good about themselves, but from my viewpoint at the sharp end they're really not going to be better on anything.

I'm not saying vote Tory btw, I actually think we need a new style of politics and new, better parties.

It's a tough one. I'm very conflicted. I see what our sisters in Ireland are having to deal with- unpicking a self-ID law brought in by stealth and we need to avoid that. But this shower in government are so shit .

I agree with JB and SD on this. I also hate the way that nuance and conflicting views seem not to be allowed in any debate. Yes I strongly disagree with the Labour Party's stance on trans rights. I also think this Conservative government is incredibly damaging to the country in almost all other ways. They are no friend to women, in general. My priority in the next general election will be getting rid of the tories and that is how I will use my vote. In my area this means voting Labour.

I suspect that, in government, the reality of a hardline TWAW approach would mean that there would be a softening of Labour's approach (which will probably piss off both sides). This is in part due to the work of feminists who have exposed the scandal of trans kids' treatment, crowdfunded important legal cases, etc.

And? If you come to FWR and read threads you will see women discussing womens rights (boringly still referred to as Trans Issues).

Pop over to any other forum - including sub fora here - and you will see the very same women discussing poverty, food banks and all sorts of other issues.

Don't let FWR blind you to that. That's why it exists after al. To make every woman who discuses womens rights look 'other', fanatical even. We've all seen the Twitter scrapes, you are making a different version of the same error!