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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

414 replies

ImpossibleDrum · 08/07/2022 07:53

Julie Bindel

You may hate me for this (well, some of you at least, but I cannot BELIEVE that many of you on here are deciding who is good or bad for PM because of the trans issue ALONE. I mean, I KNOW it is an urgent issue, but so are a million other things right now!!

Sharron Davies

I agree with your too Julie. There’s a bigger picture right now with people potentially unable to feed or keep their kids warm this winter. We can keep bringing the sunlight to other issues.

Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue
OP posts:
ResisterRex · 08/07/2022 10:54

Once woman are redefined legally to mean anyone who wants to be a woman the destruction and chaos to womans protections and services may never be undone.

I agree except I would say:

Once woman are redefined legally to mean anyone who wants to be a woman the destruction and chaos to womans protections and services will never be undone.

And I would decide it on this alone if it came to it because that implies that there are two candidates who are proposing lots of other stuff that I like, but one of them is going one way and one is going the other on this issue. It's a deal breaker for me.

Numbat2022 · 08/07/2022 10:54

PronounssheRa · 08/07/2022 08:07

For what it's worth I don't think Keir Starmer actually thinks men are women. He's just, understandably, rather desperate not to be cancelled by the far left in his party.

I agree. But doesn't that make it worse? This would mean he is happy to lie and is a coward.

He's a politician who wants to appeal to as many people as possible so he can be elected. And if you're looking for an honest politician, the Tory party are the last place I'd be looking 🙄

Civillservant · 08/07/2022 10:58

AdamRyan · 08/07/2022 10:13

Also- has anyone else noticed that OP basically plopped a negative post about two very vocal proponents of gender critical feminism and now we are basically enthusiastically slating those women?
Divide and conquer anyone?

You have a problem with a woman starting a thread by a renowned feminist on a feminst forum do you Adam?

ScrollingLeaves · 08/07/2022 10:59

Why do they see the issues as necessarily separate?

The allowing and promoting of insidious non-speak, and infiltration of of an ideology, into every part of language/thought/ life, especially children’s, the willingness to forego logical thinking, the spouting of mantras, the disregard for women and children on this issue, - does not inspire confidence in a person’s capabilities regarding any other issues.

achillestoes · 08/07/2022 10:59

@Numbat2022

So what will Starmer actually do? What are his policies for women, and transgender people?

PronounssheRa · 08/07/2022 11:02

Numbat2022 · 08/07/2022 10:54

He's a politician who wants to appeal to as many people as possible so he can be elected. And if you're looking for an honest politician, the Tory party are the last place I'd be looking 🙄

Not voting Labour doesn't = Tory 🙄

If he wanted to appeal to as many people as possible it might be an idea to stop stonewalling women's groups who have been trying to have discussions with the Labour party for a number of years now.

GoldenSongbird · 08/07/2022 11:03

Women set up my local foodbank. And women make most donations. Women always pick up the bulk of caring, of feeding, of volunteering.

And as recognition, politicians have happily tried to turn every woman's issue into a men's rights one.

Just as people were starting to acknowledge how sex impacted everything (see the fab Invisible Women book) Just as men were starting to be held accountable for abuse (Me Too) with a quick sleight of hand everything becomes about men again and women are supposed to shut up but still put out for volunteering, caring, all the thankless low paid jobs. And, of course, we're still supposed to vote for these liars and MRA-enablers. Nope.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/07/2022 11:07

Numbat2022 · Today 10:54
He's a politician who wants to appeal to as many people as possible so he can be elected. And if you're looking for an honest politician, the Tory party are the last place I'd be looking

I see what you are saying, but I do associate the origins of ‘spin’ and ‘soundbites’/ leading by ad-slogans
with Blair’s government in general. Not so honest.

The Iraq war is a shameful reminder of that getting out of hand (though I see that was partly just a terrible mistake.)

ShahRukhKhan · 08/07/2022 11:11

It's difficult. The Tories are awful on pretty much everythign except the trans issue. If Labour get in, we know they will reverse everything put in place by the Tories.

But we shouldn't be fooled into thinking the Tories are against TWAW because they support women. The result might be the same but it is because they are pro tradition and traditional views on sex and gender. Which isn't really a good thing for women either.

There is no good option for women at the moment.

Datun · 08/07/2022 11:13

People tend to vote either for a party whose policies will directly affect them, or, for a party whose values align with their own. And in a perfect world, those two things would be the same. But in this, they're not.

Most feminists are shocked that Labour Party isn't getting this. And that's where the disconnect comes in supporting Tories, however reluctantly, because they do.

It's my impression that trans ideology isn't at the forefront for Julie. Her campaigning against male violence, and her experience of women who have suffered because of it, is probably a far more palpable issue to her.

When you've got a bloody and broken woman, almost insensible with pain, in front of you, it will take priority. And of course, there are similar women who are being affected by the trans issue. But that's the nature of priorities, you have to pick one.

What I do find slightly encouraging, in the weirdest way possible, is people coming in here trying to divide women by almost constantly yelling 'well, do you agree with this thing she did, that way she votes, what about this person she knows? Eh? Eh? Do you, do you??'

They're shit scared that women uniting together, is having an effect. Julie Bindel just got a ton of support over the Nottingham debacle. Well, can't have that, can we? Let's stick the knife in.

Well I'm fucking taking the knife out.

Julie Bindel can think or say what she likes about politics which are important to her. I think she's doing a brilliant and mentally crushing job. And I suspect we will vote differently.

<throws knife on floor>

Numbat2022 · 08/07/2022 11:15

@ScrollingLeaves I agree entirely. I don't think Starmer is doing a particularly good job of being an Opposition. But I see so many people on here saying they can't possibly vote Labour because of TWAW but Boris knows what a woman is. He has literally just been sacked for lying, so why his opinion on this one issue counts, I have no idea.

I also agree with a pp saying that the Tory position on this comes from the same place as Section 28. They're not appalled to find themselves being called bigots for being worried about trans issues, like most women on here are.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 08/07/2022 11:18

I'm really not bothered by how other people think I should vote, I won't be voting for a party that cannot accept that a women is an adult human female and legislate accordingly. This isn't a one topic vote as it is impacting in so many areas of women's lives.

skinhappy · 08/07/2022 11:22

FourTeaFallOut · 08/07/2022 07:59

Of course they believe it, they just don't like it. That's fine. The good thing about not having idols is that you can take or leave their point of view. I'd have thought that we got into enough of a mess imploring women to put aside their core principles in order to be pragmatic about the greater good, but that's just my point of view.

This.

FigRollsAlly · 08/07/2022 11:22

Labour don’t have a manifesto yet. This is not the time to be telling them, or any other party, that they can carry on ignoring us because lots of us will still vote for them. They need to know that self id etc is a vote loser and that women won’t be shamed into voting for them.

VortexofBloggery · 08/07/2022 11:28

Excellent Datun

By making this "single issue" a talking point for politicians ( I disagree it's one issue actually, there is a lot tied up in it) the party I would like to vote for, has to recognise the reason why I can't. So, it's a "single issue" they can change in their own policy, meanwhile I am capable of supporting a variety of other organizations who support women in various ways ( food banks, refuges etc). Labour needs to bloody well recognize the material reality of women's lives. I do not have to vote for them until they do.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 08/07/2022 11:29

PronounssheRa · 08/07/2022 08:07

For what it's worth I don't think Keir Starmer actually thinks men are women. He's just, understandably, rather desperate not to be cancelled by the far left in his party.

I agree. But doesn't that make it worse? This would mean he is happy to lie and is a coward.

This.

I hate the Tories, but I hate the erasure of women as a sex-class more. Once it’s enshrined in law, as Labour and most other parties intend, it will be almost impossible to reverse. And the longer those trans laws, eg gender self-ID, stand, the more they will become accepted and entrenched.

FunnyTalks · 08/07/2022 11:30

I'd never vote Conservative because of their economic policies. I also disagree with their basic stance on how humans operate. I don't think they're all evil, I'm sure some have good intentions.

I can't support Labour whilst they are actively misogynist. My membership is cancelled, I'm not canvassing again.

I would vote Labour if either my local candidate or Starmer actively stood up for Rosie Duffield and called out the vile misogyny she's subjected to. Even if they don't personally agree with her.

I'm still waiting for this.

But the issue with believing this gender religion is that it seems to require one to utterly dehumanise women who don't believe. I don't think that stance is good for vulnerable people. I don't trust people who do this with all the other things I care deeply about (environment, poverty, early childhood, disability, racism).

So I don't necessarily need Labour to 100% agree with me. But they need to demonstrate courage and integrity and actually listen to the women that genderists outcast. And I'm still waiting for that.

achillestoes · 08/07/2022 11:36

‘Julie Bindel can think or say what she likes about politics which are important to her. I think she's doing a brilliant and mentally crushing job. And I suspect we will vote differently.’

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 08/07/2022 11:41

the Tory position on this comes from the same place as Section 28. They're not appalled to find themselves being called bigots for being worried about trans issues, like most women on here are.

It’s Stonewall that’s taking the Section 28 position now, opposing the right to same-sex (not gender) relationships and calling the LGB Alliance a “hate group”!

The word “bigot” is so routinely used for anyone defending women’s rights that it is meaningless.

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 08/07/2022 11:46

I agree with them. There are lots of issues that matter to me, women being one of them but not the only one.

I will vote according to which party has policies that support the majority or the main issues that concern me.

MercurialMonday · 08/07/2022 11:46

Sharon and Julie are sadly falling into the trap of believing it's all about the Trans, it really isn't - it's all about women.

I do think there's some of this going on.

Though honestly there are a range of issue that are important to me - and frankly women - health care rights etc are right up there how can they not be really.

So it does impact on how I view the PM or potential PM though it's by no means the only thing.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 08/07/2022 11:49

Divebar2021 · 08/07/2022 08:23

So it’s ok for you to express your views but it’s not ok for them to express theirs? Nice.

No one has said here that it’s not OK. Disagreeing with someone is not the same as trying to stop them speaking.

RosalindFranklinsphoto · 08/07/2022 11:52

Ohnohedident · 08/07/2022 08:07

Sorry I disagree. In the UK thankfully no one is starving.

Once woman are redefined legally to mean anyone who wants to be a woman the destruction and chaos to womans protections and services may never be undone.

Also how calculating and cold Starmer is is frankly unnerving!

Yesterday I was hunting for food and fuel support for a single woman and her kid due to DWP fucking up her payment yes she was hungry mainly because she was making sure her kid wasn't I guess to you her hunger doesn't matter? All I can say is thank dog her community and neighbours don't feel like you!

Thamesis · 08/07/2022 11:59

I'll be sure to remember this finger wagging when I hear the date of my relative's operation to remove healthy body parts 🙄

And when I hear about the 6th family I know plunged into pain and chaos by this 'side show'.

For some of us this IS THE issue of our time, of our family, of our friends. And some of us are fucking furious, and devastated, and heartbroken about it.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 08/07/2022 12:03

Unless you live in a seat with a smallish majority, who you vote for is largely irrelevant. My constituency will never change hands. Possibly if the local MP was on the front pages for weeks like Paterson or Parish but it would revert at the next GE.
So all I can do is vote or not vote according to what I judge to be important to me. Nobody cares why I vote the way I do.
Living in a safe seat gives you the luxury of single issue decisions without guilt.