Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

[ImpossibleDrum]

Julie Bindel

You may hate me for this (well, some of you at least, but I cannot BELIEVE that many of you on here are deciding who is good or bad for PM because of the trans issue ALONE. I mean, I KNOW it is an urgent issue, but so are a million other things right now!!

Sharron Davies

I agree with your too Julie. There’s a bigger picture right now with people potentially unable to feed or keep their kids warm this winter. We can keep bringing the sunlight to other issues.

I saw a discussion on social media the other day where someone kept saying how they didn’t see what trans women were taking away from women.
People explained it, mentioning sports, prisons, refuges - and then that person would just reply: „Why are you mentioning sports? I wasn’t talking about sports!“ and go back to „still can‘t see what is being taken away from women“.

This.
It‘s mind boggling how some liberal minded and seemingly progressive people are happy to endorse compelled speech and “right think” when it comes to trans issues.

It is an 'antifa' value. You know, the scary men in black masks who smash things or stand in a glowering line intimidating people. They call themselves antifascist, with no sense of irony or the ridiculous.

That's what women's liberation has always been about. The people who now call themselves left wing, while promoting me-me-me identity politics, need to ask themselves what is leftwing about their current activities.

More of a Proud Boys fan @ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus?

I see the speed with which some people on this board use it to mainline the far right is not diminishing

??? Pretty obviously not, as that’s an openly fascist group, not even pretending not to be, and I am objecting to antifa’s fascist behaviour. Is this really the level of comprehension you bring to a debate?

Oh. I’ve just realised why you insist on #nodabate. Of course!

Yes, Proud Boys or antifa, those are the only options.🙄

#nodebate. Obviously essential if you can’t muster an attempt at a convincing argument.

This is from The Labour Women’s Declaration, who do support women and children’s rights in the face of gender identity ideology.

Labour Party Refuses LWD's Application For Exhibition Stand at National Conference

labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/the-silencing-of-women/

The Labour Party is refusing these women in their own party a voice. To me this is a form of dishonest theft from the women of this country.

It is also a bullet in their own foot to boot.

I wish to know why Labour are prioritising the trans issue over all other issues mentioned.

It is clear that many leading lights would rather remain ideologically pure on this issue even if it risks losing them an election that should be easily winnable. It is more important to them not to give up on trans issues than it is to them to get the chance to form a government which would take action against poverty.

Why?

Even if the left wing politicians all backtracked and humbly apologised, the fact they have behaved like this to women in the Labour Party and women voters in the country means I personally have switched allegiance forever and now value free speech and thought above everything.
Even if heaven forbid the Tories elect 'TWAW Mordaunt' as PM, it will still be easier to dissent from within the Conservative Party. Most Tories do not believe TWAW.

It is almost as if they are telling the LWD to get back to their washing.

I think so @ScrollingLeaves . They don’t seem to have moved on very much from the 50s mindset of ‘women, know your place’. For a party which is apparently on The left, they do seem to have a lot of right wing conservative values lately.

Conservatives For Women have been working hard behind the scenes for a number of years now and the results are showing - there have been lots of conversations with conservative MPs, those in the Lords etc. Which is why we've seen reversals in various policies, bills being amended to ensure women are not erased in law.

Contrast that with Labour Women's Declaration. They have also been working very hard behind the scenes for ages and yet - they still can't even get a fucking stall at their party conference.

That tells me everything I need to know about the two parties. And yet women have to put up with sanctimonious lectures here and elsewhere on how we have to keep crawling back to Labour and "the left". No thanks. I have something called self-respect.

My rights are important to me and I will do what it takes to protect them. Freedom of speech, resisting authoritarianism, preventing the erasure of women in life, law and language - these are pretty fundamental issues from which all else flows. They are not trivial, back burner topics. I have grown up in the Middle East and have lived in South Asia. I know exactly what it means to not have freedom of speech, to live under theocratic authoritarianism, to be part of societies and cultures where women aren't even fully human under law.

I don't care if the Conservative party are mouthing all the right words about women's rights out of crude self-interest. My own self-interest in protecting my rights means I will be strategic about using whatever legal and political levers available to ensure I do not end up living in the type of society I did my best to escape from.
I am done with having my concerns being made to play second fiddle to everything else. I moved to the UK to get away from the ideological control exerted over women's words, our lives and even our thoughts. And now the gender zealots think they can pronouns their fatwas here with impunity? Over my dead body.

The Labour Party is refusing these women in their own party a voice. To me this is a form of dishonest theft from the women of this country.

I remain glad that those women are there fighting for women and also against the Tories whose rule had led to cutbacks and poverty for many vulnerable women and their children.

The Tories furlough scheme in lockdown actually had more akin to left wing politics and came under fire for how much borrowing was being done to get people through it.

Now our national debt is actually higher post-covid than it was ever under a labour government. This is a contributing factor to the current recession.

The chance of a true left wing government went with the resignation of Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories and 'New Labour' have a lot in common, oh, except the Tories actually have a diverse panel of leadership candidates and don't appear to be as sexist.

Absolfuckinglutely.

I remain glad that those women are there fighting for women and also against the Tories whose rule had led to cutbacks and poverty for many vulnerable women and their children.
I remain glad they're there too, but when their own party is refusing them a stand at their conference, and when Keir Starmer is still ignoring their requests to meet, then I also think it's legitimate, if harsh, to question what is being achieved. I know I would be if I were them.

I am too but I also know that the Tories are no friends of women and particularly poor, disabled and vulnerable women. They are not, to me, a viable alternative and I'd rather stay and fight on the left.

I think this is a battle which needs fighting on every front. So I am grateful to all women fighting for our rights in whichever political party. However I can’t see that the Labour Party is any more a friend to women than the Conservative Party. We don’t even exist in biological or physical reality to Labour, we are just a “social construct” or one of many possible identities to be chosen from the identity menu.

I no longer regard any party as a friend to women.

Sick of being told to put women's rights to the side and think of the bigger issues. History has proven that the discourse never gets around to it.
The right to the definition of our sex class in law is the very basis on which all laws that affect us are written. That is non negotiable to me.
Until labour change their stance on this I cannot vote for them.

Sick of being told to put women's rights to the side and think of the bigger issues.

I'm not telling anyone to put women's rights aside. For some women, the big issues include adequate disability and welfare support though.

For some women, the big issues include adequate disability and welfare support though.

How can we fight for those issues if the leading party can't define what a woman is?