Amy Hamm - Canadian Nurse being disciplined for being GC

[IcakethereforeIam]

I've not seen a thread on Amy on MN and the search didn't show up anything. She seems to be being put through the wringer by tras and by her nursing college.

I thought if she saw this thread it might be cheering , she's on twitter. I found her thanks to Bette.

quillette.com/2022/04/08/im-being-investigated-by-the-british-columbia-college-of-nurses-because-i-believe-biological-sex-is-real/

Pause while everyone tries the turn it off and on again solution to hearing KS

KS has a lively speaking voice

*lovely

KS: Biological sex hasn't gone away. Women in particular - all of us actually - have lost the ability to refer to ourselves accurately. For eg that males are generally bigger and stronger eg re sport. Lost ability to talk c sex in relation to maternity, sexual orientation. If you take sex away you can't talk about sexual violence, fairness in sports, harm to vulnerable females in prison, hospital wards.

And children - they are very confused c this and there are experiments in drugs and surgery on children and disproportionally done on females.

I'm really enjoying listening to Kathleen Stock, I love that little baffled 'god this is obvious isn't it' laugh she does at the beginning of some sentences.

KS: critique isn't against trans people, it's against ideas. Often tras aren't trans themselves and many trans people themselves don't agree.

LB: What is harm.

KS: Damage. But concept creep means harm can be ascribed to trivial things like offence.

LB: Is there harm to trans people by using sex based language.

KS: No. The contrary. Eg hospitals you need clarity, for correct treatment for your sex. And children shouldn't be confused. All of us in life go through feelings of distress but that's part of being human.

LB: What harm is there in pointing out correct sex of a trans person?

KS: [doesn't think there is really] If you point out the sex of a trans person everyone already knows. We are hardwired as a species to know the sex of someone.

LB: Any changes needed?

KS: No. Need to get rid of old stereotype of transsexual who's taken hormones and surgery to alter body. We are compelled to agree someone is trans just cos of their feelings being at odds with their physical body, although nothing about their body has changed.

KS stating the obvious, that you can't change sex. We are a sexually dimorphic species. Every natural language since the dawn of time we have had words for man/woman boy/girl. If TW were women they wouldn't be trans. It's a fiction in which we are being asked to immerse ourselves.

There's fiction in human life - plays, stories. Sometimes it may be therapeutically useful to go along with that fiction, or it's courtesy. Trans people can be immersed in their fiction but can't compel others to go along with it. And sometimes it's dangerous - eg going along with the fiction when faced with a rapist in a women's prison.

Children aren't going to know it's fiction - they are learning about the world from us and they need to know what biological sex is and that a man may pose specific dangers. And if children get confused about their identities there is a medical pathway they are being funnelled towards before they understand the facts.

Thanks all for your posts. I'm too angry to post coherently, but I'm following.

KS: People who are v immersed in fiction of their sex change. It's like being in a theatre - you don't want reality to break through. So they shut conversations down and control other people's language so they don't have to face it. People do that in all areas of life. Trans people shut people down by calling them bigots - that's v effective [little laugh]

Must nearly be Canada lunch time.

She's brilliant, isn't she? Just lays it all out so clearly.

KS: Detransitioners. They may reach a state of maturity and think that facts about the world were withheld from them or didn't want to see it. It's not unusual to change your mind as you get older.

KS: Fanatical tras find detrans v difficult cos they don't fit into the theory, they are a counter narrative to all the dogma. Detrans are v vulnerable.

Just found the Pathogen Disgust study they are referencing www.cambridge.org/core/journals/politics-and-the-life-sciences/article/abs/disgust-and-disgustdriven-moral-concerns-predict-support-for-restrictions-on-transgender-bathroom-access/A0426B653A8E31E0C8012F0DB31B1E79

LB: Dr Bauer says 60% trans people avoiding washrooms. Concern over safety was much smaller than the pathogen disgust driving people not wanting trans people in eg washrooms.

KS: It's clearly not the only source of concern. Would be v interested to see who was asked the question, how was asked, sample size and when it was carried out.

KS stating the blinding obvious. How are we meant to know the difference between a male predator and a TW. Lots of men might pretend to be a women to predate and that's not alarmist, you just need to look at the sex assault statistics.

Listening to KS and AH is listening to a summary of problems with trans 101. No debate. TRAs pushing the boundaries. Used to be a small number of vulnerable people and now much greater numbers. The problem of self ID meaning that any man can come into sss. Changing sex is a fiction. Sports. Harm to children. Destransitioners. Trans-iding males in prisons, refuges. etc. etc.

If nothing else, the panel (and anyone following) are getting a grounding into the arguments, a kind of greatest hits of women's concerns.

KS: there is a conflict of rights claims rather than conflict of rights. In ethics we need to work out what rights are. Human rights are meant to be basic, necessary for humans to flourish. GI claims are often couched in terms of human rights. I don't agree.

It's a human right to be free from violence and discrimination. Some say so allow them into women's spaces so they are free from male violence. But that puts women at risk cos anyone can come in. Why hasn't the same amount of effort and resource been put into third spaces?

KS: terf is now applied indiscriminately to anyone who has the 'wrong' ideas about GI.

KS: transphobia has been defined by tras and lobby groups in a v biased way - it now includes failure to accept someone's GI. It's extremely wide and the minute I open my mouth I am transphobic. It makes people afraid and shuts them up.

LB reads the JKR tweet...not hate to speak the truth. Followed by the comments that this is transphobic. What are the problems here.

KS: It's unfair. When you get rid of sex based language you can't talk c sex based attraction. Heterosexual males are now lesbians, say activists. There are now supposed to be lesbians with penises [BF started fiddling with her hair right about now]. But lesbians aren't attracted to penises.

KS: Offence is not harm. That is fundamental to a liberal society.

God I wish these lawyers could be slightly more succinct.

He keeps saying the same thing over and over again.

just logging in for the first time. one of my close friends in on the panel for the crnbc. interesting.