Midwives told sex is "assigned"

[Ravenclawdropout]

Now midwives are told sex is 'ASSIGNED' at birth mol.im/a/10964279 via dailym.ai/android

fact that’s not technically the correct usage of the word observe
Eh? Could you elaborate on the "correct usage" of the word observe? Seems pretty damned correct to me.

I gave birth to my babies over 30 years ago and their sex (male) was observed and not assigned. The idea that sex was assigned decades ago in England (at the very least) is utter nonsense!i

I absolutely agree with you. It should have stood for all to see. Just invective at encountering disagreement that biological sex is some sort of assignation or allocation. 'When Ideology Meets Reality' was part of the name of a book, I believe. Fine name.

I'm laughing at the thought of someone saying they consulted the ONS as some sort of credible imprimatur?

Oh whist, now we're onto knickers.

Assigned at birth makes no sense to me. Surely those in the room observe, confirm, note, report, identify what the physical evidence tells them. Ie there's willy it's a boy, there's a fanny it's a girl. The actual sex of the baby is surely determined at the moment of conception or there abouts - I'm not a medical person! If I were religious, I could accept that god/ a higher power might be assigning the sex. Shows a complete lack of understanding of pregnancy and childbirth that somehow the baby only becomes a reality and takes on a sex once those in the room can actually see it.

Since the turn of the century
journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1363460717740339

And of course it’s in regards to intersex babies. They’d hardly write papers about the millions of babies correctly assigned male/female at birth, the scientific interest is all on the babies incorrectly assigned male/female at birth due to DSDs.

Your claim is that assigning sex is a brand new medical term, never before used by doctors when sexing babies and invented by TRAs as a conspiracy to steal womens rights.

The fact that intersex have nothing in common with transpeople only further highlights the paranoia inherent in the view that “AFAB” and “AMAB” is a brand new nefarious plot by TRAs to deny biology.

And thanks, @Discovereads,

'And this is tough love btw. I telling you how it is, I’m not going to suck up to your delusions' from you really reassured me that my refusal to go along with a TRA-(and 'bridge-builder') demanded nonsense is fine, as it's really not good for them to have people sucking up to their delusions.

Assigned at birth makes no sense to me. Surely those in the room observe, confirm, note, report, identify what the physical evidence tells them.

After observing & confirming, you assign the sex…M or F, you do this before noting it. Assign is used because the baby cannot choose what sex they are. The observer must assign them the official label of M or F.

And of course it’s in regards to intersex babies
Ffs . Intersex babies, who by their very nature don't have observable sex characteristics.
Will you stop your bloody nonsense, you're embarrassing yourself.

I’m sorry but this is actually a bit of GC nonsense. Much ado about nothing. TRAs are guilty of the same to be honest in some of the things they come up with. But this protesting the use of the word “assign” kind of squashes the smug “we are the critical thinkers” stuff your side tends to spout. Apparently both sides are short on critical thinking is what this shows me.

Intersex babies do have observable sex characteristics. Geez, that’s really embarrassing for you isn’t it? Do you seriously think intersex babies look like a Barbie doll and literally have no genitalia? Sorry to burst your bubble but they do.

Can you answer my question on why the word observe is being incorrectly used in this context?

'Assigned at birth' does not predate observed at birth by decades @Discovereads. I qualified as as midwife decades ago and the sex of the baby was always observed and documented. My colleagues and I had no part in deciding the sex of the baby as that was done my nature. All we did was observe which of the two sexes the child was and document it accordingly.

There is no need to use this language regarding babies without DSDs @Discovereads

It was used for DSD babies BECAUSE there is a degree of choice by the investigating physician. There is no choice in sexing healthy babies, hence the term has never been used in reference to sex determination of healthy babies until TRAs came along.

Stop pretending you don't understand

Observe means to simply watch or monitor. The word does not include any analysis of what is being observed…as in assessing “is the baby a boy or a girl” and comparing observed features to biological sex characteristic knowledge nor does it include deciding and assigning the sex as in “baby is a boy” nor does it include recording the sex “Bobs birth certificate says M”

So yeah, go ahead and change the terminology to “observed” at birth but that’s not the correct usage of “observe” because technically more than observing happens. Observe is merely the first step.

Oh, balls! 🙄 Not that I expected much else, tbf.

It's noted and recorded, for pity's sakes. There is really not that much flipping analysis involved, any moron can do that bit, penis-boy, no penis-girl. Do you think women who give birth alone don't know the sex of their babies, till it's been 'analyzed and recorded'? And you accuse us of stupidity?

Of course you decide which sex the baby is. You decide whether you are observing a boy baby or a girl baby. Then based on your observation you assign the sex and record it.

It like arguing you have an ice cream cone and you taste it. You then decide what flavour the ice cream is. You decide am I tasting chocolate or is it vanilla. Deciding is by nature an internal thought process, it doesn’t change the physical nature of the ice cream. After deciding, you then assign the name to the ice cream…this is a chocolate ice cream cone. Then you record/write down…ice cream is chocolate.

Oh the salami tactics and verbal wangling to slide the politics oh so gently into place.

No, no one assigns the birth. It is observed and recorded. That's it. It's a fact.

This is all part of the utter tosh exposed today in the Scots govt training about sometimes a woman without DSD is mistakenly assigned male at birth by medics based on having male biology yada yada.

It's all about forcing the acceptance that males are females if they want to be.

No. They are not. There are two sexes. No one changes sex. It is a fixed lifetime fact regardless of gender. It is observed at birth and can be observed thousands of years after death too. Reality is not going to bend around this corner and nor will I.

I’m taking about the internal thought process as well you know. Most internal thought processes are broken down into steps.

@Discovereads it's not a process, process involves more than a single step - observe lack of/presence of penis.

And never in my life had a had to taste an ice-cream to determine if an ice-cream is chocolate or vanilla, I've simply observed the colour. Are you often confused by simple things and need 'processes' to distinguish them from each other?

Your mind would appear to operate differently to most people's, then. Slower; maybe, if a simple observation entails multiple "steps"?

It’s a thought process to assign sex. It’s sad you have no clue how your brain works.

We all know perfectly well how our brain works. Quicker than yours appears to.

Speed has nothing to do with how thought processes work in the human brain and how they can be broken down. I could get really technical on you and go from optic nerve to each neuron but I fear that would probably confuse you.

Sigh, speed has nothing to do with it. Sadly I think you really have no idea because you think speed/quickness are related when they are not.