Fck it. Just going to identify as agender as a GC feminist.

[Metabigot]

I'm technically agender anyway as I choose to not believe in gender woo.

If males can infiltrate feminism by saying they're women I'm infiltrating transgendersism by identifying as agender.

If I'm asked my gender identity why shouldn't I say this, it's technically true according to stonewall.

Quite like the idea of being a double agent of sorts....

Sorry? Why do the fact people are vile about women mean I can't have an opinion that I don't like nastiness?!

re your religion comment - I'm as atheist as they come. I don't start threads mocking religious people.

Are you not a fan of comedy, @placewherewebelong ?

Or satire, or any kind of wit?

I like Ricky Gervais, but I wouldn't watch Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle who think ill children and disabled people are fair game. Where do we draw the line?

You like Ricky Gervais but you don't approve of women similarly taking the piss out of genderists?

Some comedy.

I don't like comedy which thinks terminally ill children are fair game, no, as with the vast majority.

I actually liked Ricky in After Life, as an atheist with a phobia of death.

The trans thing is always going to be divisive. I just don't think as grown women we need to gleefully rip the piss out of people. As with anything, outside hte world of MN, there are ways and means. If you explained yourself in a way that wasnt mocking, I'd probably agree. and unlike assertions from PP, I don't think im the judge and jury of threads. I'm just another human with a different opinion, I know that's shocking but its allowed.

But you arent taking the piss out of genderists. you're also taking the piss out of confused and vulnerable people.

I just don't think as grown women we need to gleefully rip the piss out of people.

But ok for Ricky? Why? Is it because he is a "grown man"?

I suppose what I'm getting here is I don't mind people who are fair game being mocked. If this was a thread mocking Katie Hopkins, I'd not bat an eye as the woman gives as good as she gets.

but being gleefully spiteful (Im going to pretend im a pony, etc) doesn't just impact the "genderists", if thats a thing. It impacts a lot of people who frankly don't deserve it. they might believe in something you dont, in the same way Christians believe in something I dont, but we dont need to be spiteful. You can express your view without that.

But you arent taking the piss out of genderists. you're also taking the piss out of confused and vulnerable people.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Vulnerable people are generally responsible for their actions, and some of them are awful to women.

I knew you'd go for that, and bring it back to sex, because of course thats what its about.

I dont like his stand up (I like Michael Mcintyre and Jason Manford who manage to be funny without being nasty) but I liked his series. He might have been flippant about death but he was playing the role of a grieving man and it was done as an art form.

It wasn't denying someone elses reality.

But at this point, is there any point in me saying anything, given that everything I say is a "gotcha"?

And women are awful to other people. Can I assume you're OK with that based on their sex?

It impacts a lot of people who frankly don't deserve it.

How? That they see that people don't agree with their beliefs? It really isn't something people should have to tiptoe around. Maybe it might cut through and be a wake up call for some.

But you were then spiteful, calling others merely disagreeing with you on an anonymous internet thread “bullies”. So why should we cater to your sensibilities? You can’t go about complaining about meanspiritedness, then immediately display it yourself, then go on to complain about people pointing that out, without looking like you’re maybe a little lacking in a sense of irony.

But by claiming to be women, trans women are denying my reality.

And my right to identify myself in a way that doesn't include them.

There shouldn’t be a line. Everything should be fair game for ridicule. Hume taught us that, that none should be above mockery.

you just have to be very, very good to make dying children funny. And Boyle’s not that good.

And women are awful to other people. Can I assume you're OK with that based on their sex?

Please stop creating straw men to argue with, it's manipulative.

My god, you're boring.

@Ereshkigalangcleg , it's not a strawman. I'm simply questioning why you seem to think that the actions of certain transwomen being awful is indicative of a whole group, and they are therefore fair game, but you dont seem to think that women can be awful to other people.

No, they aren't.

In their own heads (And I'm not talking about the nutters) they want to be part of YOUR reality, not deny you.

@Metabigot re you being agender. This is what I have been told too. Which is great because when I am arrested for my hate crime I will wave my little flag and speak in the approved style and make the required demands and everything out if it because being under the trans umbrella means you don’t have to take responsibility for yourself or your actions.

a bit like not liking someone’s joke in the internet. Instead of whining you could find something else on th internet.

I’ve got some great jokes about trans stuff. There is a rich seam of mockery there, but fuck all satire because no one could trump the likes of Jeffrey or that new simpering one, Dylan, I think? With the barbies pocket tampons? He has to be a character act.

I didn't say, and don't think that women can't be awful, so it is precisely a straw man.

Back to the original purpose of the thread - ALSO don't feel gendered. I don't feel my sex aligns with anything other than its biological function which I may or may not choose to use. I often feel very 'unfeminjbe and I'm definitely unladylike as my mother always points out. So in this endless conversation about 'gender' where do I fit? I don't feel 'womanly' and often feel awkward and out of place. I'm certain, if asked, that I would also describe myself as agender. But the point of this whole thread is that as an apparently cishet woman (I'm not, I'm bisexual but currently in a relationship with a man so you'd never know the difference at first glance) if I were to come out and claim that on SM and expect the world to treat me as if I'm something special, there will STILL be people from within the community who think I'm gendering wrong. Because it all means different things to different people. Just like religion.

they want to be part of YOUR reality, not deny you.

They can't. It's not possible. They have nothing in common with us that other males don't. And sometimes the stereotyped view they have of women is deeply offensive. Should that mean they should stop doing it?

But your whole basis of speaking about trans people is about members of that group being awful to women, yes? So by that logic, you are ignoring the fact that women are also awful to trans people (as shown on this thread). Does your natural born sex make you better than the other?

In their own heads (And I'm not talking about the nutters) they want to be part of YOUR reality, not deny you.

They can want it all they like. But that doesn't change the material facts does it? I get that you want to be kind etc but that kind of fantastical thinking is problematic in so many ways.

But they aren't part of my reality. They have nothing to do with me.

I want to be able to have and use a word that means, exclusively, adult humans of the female biological sex to describe myself, and to have single sex spaces and sports reserved for that group.

I don't want that word to include male people, because that would defeat the purpose of it.

I don't recognise the legitimacy of gender as being any sensible basis on which to organise society, because it is based on regressive and sexist stereotypes.