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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Fck it. Just going to identify as agender as a GC feminist.

667 replies

Metabigot · 25/06/2022 17:25

I'm technically agender anyway as I choose to not believe in gender woo.

If males can infiltrate feminism by saying they're women I'm infiltrating transgendersism by identifying as agender.

If I'm asked my gender identity why shouldn't I say this, it's technically true according to stonewall.

Quite like the idea of being a double agent of sorts....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:15

Well, the problem is you're not making a clear argument.

You say a small number have gender dysphoria , based on I'm not sure what exactly, but seem unable to tell me what you think the rest of them feel.

Again, it doesn't give you carte blanche to make up what people have said to smear them.

nightwakingmoon · 26/06/2022 14:16

It’s really noticeable on FWR at the moment that there’s a big influx (as there periodically is) of posters derailing threads with sealioning, DARVO etc. and it always seems to coincide with times when there are critical news stories about genderism.

Anyway, to bring it back to the thread topic. I’m reposting something below that I posted on a similar thread about gender labels, which popped up on my Tumblr feed yesterday morning (sorry I can’t seem to copy the rabbit graphic that goes with it):


“[Image description: Five rabbits are gathered under an umbrella. The umbrella is coloured like the aromantic flag on the outside. On the inside it is coloured like the frayromantic, demiromantic, lithoromantic, recipromantic, and aroflux flags. The first rabbit is wearing an aromantic allosexual shirt, the second is wearing a nebularomantic shirt, the third one (who is holding the umbrella) is wearing an aromantic shirt, the fourth one is wearing an oriented aromantic asexual shirt, and the fifth one is wearing a cupioromantic shirt. End description.]
There are a lot of ways to be aromantic.

I mean, come on. [—Just to save you the effort of looking it up, “Lithromanticism (also known as akoiromantic or apromantic) is a romantic orientation on the aromantic spectrum. Lithromanticism describes romantic attraction without the desire for reciprocation. Lithromantic experiences may include: Feeling romantic attraction that fades upon being reciprocated.”]

There’s plenty more all over youth social media where this came from. Gender identity is about all these labels like agender, aro etc. (Or microlabels as they’re called). But these labels are hardly great progressive vehicles of sexual freedom for historically deeply oppressed sexual minorities who have now found a way to live their true identities, are they now?

Has anyone in history ever fought for their civil rights not to be criminalised, shunned or socially marginalised for their inner identity of “going off your crushes when they start liking you back”? Or fit being “cupioromantic” (which is the opposite?)

All this rhetoric about how trans people are hugely oppressed by women being “mean” on Mumsnet misses the entire point. There are quite clearly whole tranches of gender ideology which are deeply silly and ridiculous.

The OP and others are perfectly well allowed to gently mock them, and the idea that making fun of gender labels like being agender or Cassgender or “cupioromantic” et al is terrible dreadful violence to transpeople is simply ridiculous.

Moreover, it’s likely to turn out to be hugely counterproductive, since we can all see with our own eyes that much of the gender label/identity bandwagon is completely risible.

If you really want to stand up for trans people, you could hop on Twitter or Tumblr and maybe suggest to them that their social justice cause is not well advanced by hopping up and down with manufactured outrage, hyperbole, name calling and trying to shame others into not speaking about the whole edifice.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:17

Aromantic rabbits, that's a new one Grin

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:17

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:15

Well, the problem is you're not making a clear argument.

You say a small number have gender dysphoria , based on I'm not sure what exactly, but seem unable to tell me what you think the rest of them feel.

Again, it doesn't give you carte blanche to make up what people have said to smear them.

I'm not smearing you. I'm clarifying if thats what you meant.

So far you have been unable to clarify what you meant, so you can't really blame posters for making their own assumptions given that you are not able to make a clear argument.

Conflictedunicorn · 26/06/2022 14:17

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 13:43

No, but ironically enough, I believe that biological men are more accepting of trans men - IME, boys are more accepting of trans boys - than the other way round.

Now I'm sure someone will be along to tell me it's because theyre all misogynists who want to erase women, but the reality is, boys are more likely to live by the principle of dont be a dick rather than the group of what people fall into.

But isn’t the whole point of transwomen accessing fe,ales because they are not safe in male spaces. If, as you say boys are more accepting, surely transwomen would be perfectly safe in male spaces? Or is it not about safety but ‘validation’. In which case why should make feelings trump women’s rights to privacy, safety and dignity?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:18

All this rhetoric about how trans people are hugely oppressed by women being “mean” on Mumsnet misses the entire point. There are quite clearly whole tranches of gender ideology which are deeply silly and ridiculous.

Exactly.

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:18

nightwakingmoon · 26/06/2022 14:16

It’s really noticeable on FWR at the moment that there’s a big influx (as there periodically is) of posters derailing threads with sealioning, DARVO etc. and it always seems to coincide with times when there are critical news stories about genderism.

Anyway, to bring it back to the thread topic. I’m reposting something below that I posted on a similar thread about gender labels, which popped up on my Tumblr feed yesterday morning (sorry I can’t seem to copy the rabbit graphic that goes with it):


“[Image description: Five rabbits are gathered under an umbrella. The umbrella is coloured like the aromantic flag on the outside. On the inside it is coloured like the frayromantic, demiromantic, lithoromantic, recipromantic, and aroflux flags. The first rabbit is wearing an aromantic allosexual shirt, the second is wearing a nebularomantic shirt, the third one (who is holding the umbrella) is wearing an aromantic shirt, the fourth one is wearing an oriented aromantic asexual shirt, and the fifth one is wearing a cupioromantic shirt. End description.]
There are a lot of ways to be aromantic.

I mean, come on. [—Just to save you the effort of looking it up, “Lithromanticism (also known as akoiromantic or apromantic) is a romantic orientation on the aromantic spectrum. Lithromanticism describes romantic attraction without the desire for reciprocation. Lithromantic experiences may include: Feeling romantic attraction that fades upon being reciprocated.”]

There’s plenty more all over youth social media where this came from. Gender identity is about all these labels like agender, aro etc. (Or microlabels as they’re called). But these labels are hardly great progressive vehicles of sexual freedom for historically deeply oppressed sexual minorities who have now found a way to live their true identities, are they now?

Has anyone in history ever fought for their civil rights not to be criminalised, shunned or socially marginalised for their inner identity of “going off your crushes when they start liking you back”? Or fit being “cupioromantic” (which is the opposite?)

All this rhetoric about how trans people are hugely oppressed by women being “mean” on Mumsnet misses the entire point. There are quite clearly whole tranches of gender ideology which are deeply silly and ridiculous.

The OP and others are perfectly well allowed to gently mock them, and the idea that making fun of gender labels like being agender or Cassgender or “cupioromantic” et al is terrible dreadful violence to transpeople is simply ridiculous.

Moreover, it’s likely to turn out to be hugely counterproductive, since we can all see with our own eyes that much of the gender label/identity bandwagon is completely risible.

If you really want to stand up for trans people, you could hop on Twitter or Tumblr and maybe suggest to them that their social justice cause is not well advanced by hopping up and down with manufactured outrage, hyperbole, name calling and trying to shame others into not speaking about the whole edifice.

And you know im not on twitter how?

Btw - no one has a clue what you mean about sealioning and DARVO. YOu're not in a university debate, it's a bloody internet forum.

Conflictedunicorn · 26/06/2022 14:18

Sorry female spaces. We need an edit button

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:19

Conflictedunicorn · 26/06/2022 14:17

But isn’t the whole point of transwomen accessing fe,ales because they are not safe in male spaces. If, as you say boys are more accepting, surely transwomen would be perfectly safe in male spaces? Or is it not about safety but ‘validation’. In which case why should make feelings trump women’s rights to privacy, safety and dignity?

But thats apples and oranges - I've never once said i think anybody should be in anyone elses space.

What i said was, I didn't like the mocking, sneering and nastiness. Shocking.

PeppaPigIsBacon · 26/06/2022 14:19

I’ve started identifying as quoigender. Shuts people up as no one knows what it is. And is actually fairly accurate in terms of my feelings about the whole gender thing.

nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Quoigender

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:20

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:18

All this rhetoric about how trans people are hugely oppressed by women being “mean” on Mumsnet misses the entire point. There are quite clearly whole tranches of gender ideology which are deeply silly and ridiculous.

Exactly.

to you.

If i started a thread about womens' concerns about something being silly and ridiculous, I'd be piled on. So how is it OK to other groups?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:20

Btw - no one has a clue what you mean about sealioning and DARVO. YOu're not in a university debate, it's a bloody internet forum.

Many people know full well what sealioning and DARVO is on Internet forums, this is hilarious. It's not exactly a novelty here on FWR.

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:20

FWIW, I don't believe ANYONE's view is ridiculous. I might not agree with it, but that doesn't make it ridiculous.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:20

to you.

Yes. No need for you to join in!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:21

If i started a thread about womens' concerns about something being silly and ridiculous, I'd be piled on.

Feel free.

nightwakingmoon · 26/06/2022 14:22

I think you’ll find that the lived experiences of many women on mumsnet means they know very well what sealioning and DARVO are (and there if anything is a marker of someone who hasn’t spent any time on MN outside these boards).

Just dropping this graphic here again:

Fck it. Just going to identify as agender as a GC feminist.
placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:22

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:21

If i started a thread about womens' concerns about something being silly and ridiculous, I'd be piled on.

Feel free.

But I wouldn't.

Because even if I disagree with views, I wouldn't mock them and call them ridiculous. You can disagree without completely invalidating them and being nasty.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:23

I’ve started identifying as quoigender.

Oh yes. Perfect.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:23

But I wouldn't.

Your choice. I don't care. As you said, you'd get piled on, and that might be fair enough.

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:24

nightwakingmoon · 26/06/2022 14:22

I think you’ll find that the lived experiences of many women on mumsnet means they know very well what sealioning and DARVO are (and there if anything is a marker of someone who hasn’t spent any time on MN outside these boards).

Just dropping this graphic here again:

I have, I just don't usually comment, because despite what you say, I think everyone's entitled to an opinion

The fact i said about 10 pages ago I don't think people need to be gleeful and spiteful and it's had this reaction says it all.

Conflictedunicorn · 26/06/2022 14:24

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:20

to you.

If i started a thread about womens' concerns about something being silly and ridiculous, I'd be piled on. So how is it OK to other groups?

You’ve not been on the site long have you sweetie? Try AIBU if you want to see threads ridiculing women’s concerns. Who has there suddenly been loads of new posters trying to tone police the women on here? This must be the 4th time this week. Has someone sent out a bat signal or something? .

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:24

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:23

But I wouldn't.

Your choice. I don't care. As you said, you'd get piled on, and that might be fair enough.

Yes, I would. Rightly so.

But trans people are fair game?

there's a word for that.

placewherewebelong · 26/06/2022 14:25

Conflictedunicorn · 26/06/2022 14:24

You’ve not been on the site long have you sweetie? Try AIBU if you want to see threads ridiculing women’s concerns. Who has there suddenly been loads of new posters trying to tone police the women on here? This must be the 4th time this week. Has someone sent out a bat signal or something? .

No, it's just thankfully that the days of the same group of people ruling the boards seem to be going. Thankfully.

and I've been on AIBU for years, 'sweetie'. Not much leads me to comment, but this thread did.

Belovedfool · 26/06/2022 14:25

PeppaPigIsBacon · 26/06/2022 14:19

I’ve started identifying as quoigender. Shuts people up as no one knows what it is. And is actually fairly accurate in terms of my feelings about the whole gender thing.

nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Quoigender

Ooooh that's a good one. Pity the flag is deeply unattractive.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/06/2022 14:25

But trans people are fair game?

Fair game for what? What name would you give gentle mockery of gender identity ideology?