What you all said was coming

[Pippinbird]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10947483/Anguish-young-man-sex-organs-removed-NHS-regretted-day-SUES-NHS

Sound like socially he was ashamed of being gay.

Poor man, as much as I hate seeing the NHS being sued it seems something is needed to drastically change the mindset.

This could of easily also been a law suit where he was refused the survey and told he needed to come terms with his sexuality instead.

So disgraceful that he’s suing the NHS. He needs to take a certain amount of responsibility for this. He says he didn’t realise it would be such a big change…what?? Whether they did enough counselling is another matter as he may not have been suitable. I wasn’t there so can’t comment fully. However, to say it’s 100% their fault is ridiculous. If he can give consent to the operation then he could have said no to the treatment at anytime.

To be fair though, it's not that well kept a secret as I know quite a lot about it and have only learned since JK ROwling put her hat into the ring.
The information is out there, but yes, if you only research one side of it and seek only affirmation then that's what you'll get.
I imagine I could do the same for breast implants, join a pro Facebook group, instagrammers, read glowing testimonials and come to the same optimistic and naive conclusion.
The difference being I'd be funding my own folly, not the NHS.

This (the man in the Op, not the fictional Jesus!) could well have been my son, if he had not actually had some useful therapy from GIDS.

That's really good to hear, rise - can you say any more about this? Obviously don't if you'd prefer not to. I'm interested into what the GIDS services are actually like beyond the headlines.

It's a shame and some visible learning, unfortunately taking a life with it, in my view. He said he started the journey, latched on, with zeal.

Its classic avoidance. He should have been supported to explore that. Like the heroin user who gives that up and latches on to alcohol instead. 'Still not good!!!'

The whole issue is turning. But it's a shame it took this man with it. Of course all down to being gay and afraid to come out due to his family's attitudes.

I don't have any medical qualifications but I consider myself reasonably intelligent. I find it hard to believe that anyone who has their genitalia removed would not expect to have issues with incontinence and sexual function. It's not really rocket science is it!!

This isn't about this individual man knew or didn't know what he was doing. It is about the responsibility of doctors to behave ethically and not to carry out harmful, life-altering procedures with no medical benefit.

What @RoyalCorgi said. Also, people really need to look long and hard at the post from @rogdmum I've quoted here. This is a disgrace.

We seem to have moved from a position where a tiny handful of adults were given extensive treatment for what everybody recognised was a mental health problem, and a few of them as an absolute last resort were given hormone and surgical treatments because nothing else worked - to the position now, where far larger numbers of people are asking for medical treatments but are adamant that they don't have a mental health condition, it's just that (uniquely in the human experience) they have somehow ended up with a body that doesn't match their brain and they've decided the body needs to be altered to make it a better fit. And HCPs and administrators and politicians and Uncle Tom Cobley and all are just nodding along and saying 'Yes, OK, there'll be a long waiting list, but in principle, can't see an issue with this'. Really?

If the drs who have years of training under their belt , and have likely seen first hand the results of these surgeries and absolutely know it's leaving patients incontinent and disabled and sexually/physically dysfunctional and suicide rates increasing after several years after surgery, are so captured they will destroy a healthy functioning body on the say so of delusional patients and lobby groups witg no medical.back ground. Then what hope does a patient in the grips of a dysphoria, who has been indulged in a lie for tears have of saying no.

Apparently the woman who transitioned to be one a man and then went on to have two babies didn't realise they wouldn't be able to breastfeed after a mascetomy. So it seems people are ill informed regularly.

It's not even remotely comparable to thalidomide.

They didn't know thalidomide would cause birth defects when they prescribed it to pregnant women.

These people know exactly what harm they are causing.

"Since newspapers are talking shit. Let's clarify.

All my hormones were prescribed by the NHS. I never self medded, I did however get a payday loan for a private diagnosis to start androgen blockers.

NHS approved and issued"

twitter.com/tullipr/status/1540164378900717569?s=21&t=kVMdtU7MkISB1--dvbOVdQ

How’s money going to bring back sensation, unless there’s a private procedure he can pay for that I’m unaware of? He comes across as grabby if he sues for loads of cash when they gave the operation he asked for and he received the desired outcome. It’s not like he asked to be made a woman and they accidentally chopped off his leg. Then I’d have some sympathy.

You think a clitoris is the same as the bottom of the shaft of a penis?
God there have been some ignorant bullshit on this thread.
Also the 'not the sharpest tool in the box'
If you bothered to listen to the podcast he did you would see he is actually a very intelligent, brave and thoughtful person.
I know this is only mumsnet but ffs educate yourselvs off the level of the basement before posting.

There are people with body integrity identity disorder who strongly belief they should have both legs amputated, or their spinal column severed.

Doctors don't perform those procedures on them, because it is understood that those people are mentally unwell, not capable of giving valid consent, and it would not be in their best interests.

Why is it different when the body part someone wants cut off is a penis or a pair of breasts?

The problem with both this case and the Keira Bell case was that they hinge on whether the patient is able to give informed consent. That's the way the law works, unfortunately. But what we should be focusing on is whether doctors should be carrying out this procedure at all. Other analogous procedures might be lobotomies or vaginal mesh - the point is that doctors should not be performing them, full stop. How can anyone consent to having healthy body parts removed?

I havent read through the whole thread, but I have followed this young man's story

Its not as simple as 'well of course he know that he was going to have his ckock chopped off' misses the point entirely.

Yes, of course he knew that - but he was fed the lie that his gender dysphoria would be cured by those actions. That rather than investigating the psychological causes for his distress, which most likely in the past would have led him to come to be at ease with his male body, and his same sex attraction, he was fast tracked down the glittery rainbow path of sex change as the magic bullet that would allow him to live a perfect new life as a woman.

He was ill. He was severely mentally unwell. Gender dysphoria is akin to other body dysmorphias, such as anorexia. We wouldnt allow the NHS to perform gastric bypasses on an anorexic as a cure. The links with OCD and trauma are close. We would expect the NHS to 'do no harm' and to refer to psychiatric / pasychological help, which is what USED to happen before the transactivists took hold of the service, removed being trans from being a menatl health issue, and followed the affirmation only pathway.

So yes, I do think the medical establishment holds the can here. Only promoting transition as the solution, not giving full disclosure on risks and follow ups, not following through to see whether post transition results have a drastic reduction in MH problems (answer - no they dont, in fact suicide is higher after) - not talking about the awful side effects and long term effects. Yes, I hope he sues. And I hope it stops this harmful practice in its tracks, because those with true gender dysphoria are the ones being harmed by a section of society who have absolutely no cares in the world beyond their own narcissism, nor any kind of dysphoria around their male bodies, but who have utilised the dysphoric for their own agenda

Poor poor guy.

A few more of these cases - and we all know there will be more - and health services private and state will have to be much more careful.

Surgeons have been led astray by the opportunity to develop their techniques, I feel.

Any reasonable doctor would surely have said 'What a shame. I'm afraid sex change is not possible. We can use plastic surgery to create some similar prostheses, but the function is totally different and sub optimal. It's doable where there's no other choice, but it's not an elective surgery.'

I do agree there's definitely things the NHS needs to learn from this and their services are probably going to need to do a lot of awkward backtracking. They should have been firmer with the people pushing more extreme views. I also don't think that threatening suicide/self harm should be a reason for having any kind of plastic surgery. This is not a healthy way of dealing with stress whatever the cause of stress. Focus should be on teaching them to deal with this stress and in the case of young kids working out what the hell is going so wrong in their childhood to cause such stress as a lot of the time I believe gender identity is a symptom of this not a cause. I'm not saying the NHS is perfect but it's very hard to challenge this notion that society seems to have that gender identity should simply go unchallenged and that major life altering surgery is the solution. The whole of society needs to educate kids better, not just the NHS is my point

So disgraceful that he’s suing the NHS. He needs to take a certain amount of responsibility for this. He says he didn’t realise it would be such a big change…what?? Whether they did enough counselling is another matter as he may not have been suitable.

Well, yes, the counselling bit is critical to this case!

The NHS has a duty of care to ensure that only the people who would benefit from hormones and surgery get them!

If the NHS can show it provided adequate support, counselling and took all necessary steps to ensure that this man was capable of giving informed consent then it will win the case and has nothing to worry about.

Agreed. The impartiality is key.

As the NHS are promoting this idea that medical treatment and terms can be gender neutral and promoting terms like uterus haver in its information, and its paying for training for its MEDICAL staff from self appointed experts in ‘identifying as another gender’, and it’s ignoring the equality act and promoting same sex but mixed sex wards and medical staff that are women but male born, and its ignoring whistle blowers such as its own safeguarding leads - it needs to be sued into reality and to start looking at its spending.

There is a famous Hollywood actor who is around 60 . He said that if he was growing up now he would probably have gone down the transwoman route and then wanted a reversal. He is gay and was very uncomfortable,as a young man, about his gayness and how his family and others would cope with it. He didn't have that option then and he said he is very glad that,as a much older man, he can live as a man ,but a man who fancies men, rather than trying to live as a transwoman.
I think the mental health aspect of the trans situation is far,far more important than anything else. It isn't an accident that the majority of people who wish to transition are also on the autistic spectrum. Finding happiness through hormones and life changing surgery may help some achieve peace of mind. Many others will find that the troubles they have inside their head remain just the same despite changing their external body.

he was fed the lie that his gender dysphoria would be cured by those actions. That rather than investigating the psychological causes for his distress, which most likely in the past would have led him to come to be at ease with his male body, and his same sex attraction,

I've now listened to the Benjamin Boyce interview and the recommended Just Checking In podcast. There had been severe mental health problems to the point that they resulted in hospitalisation from the age of 4. There's a lot of complex trauma in there.

It's very clear that there are few checks and balances for adults. It's also very clear that, despite the objections, there is a huge need for a re-examination of the adult services and the current affirmation model.

OT: the Benjamin Boyce discussion with Tulip and Sinead Watson is very thoughtful on a number of issues, especially the differences between detransitioners who are MtFtM (and the split within them along Blanchard lines) and FtMtF. Even more OT, excellent discussion as to why the word 'detrans' should be minimised unless needed for clarity.

I have very little sympathy for him, but if this is the warning shot that stops the NHS from sterilising and mutulating children, and wasting taxpayers money offering this surgery to adults for free, then he can crack on and I hope he wins.