What you all said was coming

[Pippinbird]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10947483/Anguish-young-man-sex-organs-removed-NHS-regretted-day-SUES-NHS

This is real bones of the case - misdiagnosis and gender ideology
toss in homophobia. Better to be trans than gay etc

Oh yes. Lots of blithe remarks about 'I can always adopt' or even 'My sister could be a surrogate'. I have the impression adoption is a very different thing in the US where there still are many newborn babies given up by their mothers (and that can only increase now ), but over here nobody can count on being able to adopt, as (rightly) prospective adopters face extensive screening and not everybody will pass that. Also, of course, in the UK most children adopted by people outside their own family have been removed from their parents by social services and have significant problems - neglect, abuse, health issues, learning difficulties - which means their adoptive families have to be prepared for very tough times. Someone who is battling their own issues is possibly not the best person to take on that challenge.

Stephanie Davis Arai was yelling this from the roof tops years ago. She had hundreds and hundreds of emails from 'trans' children and their parents and said she had yet to receive one which didn't have either homosexuality, trauma or autism as the starting point.

People have known about this for years.

And yet the National Autistic society are completely captured.

However, in part, I suspect due to the fact that there's a growing trend to center "actually autistic" voices - of whom a larger number identify as trans.

So the loop is difficult to break.

I feel like Temple Grandin has disappeared from narratives within autism.

She's extremely gender non conforming.

We adopted my 4YO at 9MO. I LOATHE it when people talk about it like you just go and collect a baby from the baby market and all live happily ever after. I love my dd to bits and have no regrets at all but it's soooo much more complicated than this in all situations

Oral sex, hand jobs, anal sex.

I think ultimately what it comes down to is that it is insane to mess with people's healthy bodies in order to treat a psychiatric disorder.

If the problem is in the mind, you need to treat the mind, not the body.

I completely agree.

Just listened. He speaks very well - the affirmative model from those around him - both medical and online- combined with poor mental health to steer him along this path.

I don’t think money is the motive. He wants to highlight the dangers of a medicalised pathway that is unproven, for what should be therapy based support for troubled young people

I don't know why my post was deleted (though I suspect a descriptive phrase I used is banned). I don't think it was the link to Aasmah Mir's interview with Ritchie which was on Times Radio this morning. This interview, which is well worth a listen to, and Mariella Frostrup having Janice Turner on this afternoon give me hope that Times Radio will begin to cover the sex/ gender debate more than it has done so to date.

twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1541739774138105857

Why was @AuntMunca 's post deleted?
As far as I can remember she mentioned that Tullip (she used his correct name which is now public) was interviewed on the radio and I can't remember what show it was, (not one I listen to regularly) and she was critical of the female interviewer (whose name I don't recognise) in general terms but complimentary regarding this particular interview. I thought I might listen when I got home from work but now I don't know where to find it. I don't think she included a link. I honestly can't think what she said that was objectionable.

Cross post @AuntMunca !

Interesting to see this interview and to hear that he feels encouraged by older men on these forums he frequented. He ran with it. There is no one person or institution to blame for this. It's a hellish mess of insecurity, social media pressure and possibly mental health issues.

Would like to know what trans advocates would think if the UK decided to ban all surgery like this.Is this something they would campaign against?

Would like to know what trans advocates would think if the UK decided to ban all surgery like this.Is this something they would campaign against?

I presume so. Many of them are desperate for such surgery and it's the right course of action for some people. But there need to be safeguards and full information. There are ethics to consider when making permanent changes to a healthy body, including removal of partdm

I suspect that when the wonderful Temple grandin dies she will quickly be posthumously transed....

Undoubtedly.

I don't think it would work to ban all "treatments." It would be interpreted as fascist. What is wrong is that there's no ability to analysis and challenge.

Half of this is a myth on the internet though which is going to be the hardest thing to change. And why Ritchie has spoken up in the hope it trickles through. He said it was 100% internet driven.

Mermaids need to be taken to task.

unherd.com/2022/06/why-did-my-daughter-become-trans/?fbclid=IwAR0VUXbvPVFdiHDBTWmO45p5HSiZQjFjZefwjtfDg7CzV0AcY-AHSBHBtec

In the times radio he describes the coercion he was subjected to.

Mermaids 100% coerce. As demonstrated in the above article.

Article in the Times about the interview today:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9c6f39d8-f71a-11ec-84c1-32e852e780b0?shareToken=d5ae6b86da6fd72b988e4e01db351018

Wow. Compare and contrast:

"Herron took out a payday loan to pay for an appointment at a private gender clinic in March 2014. He says that he was diagnosed with “transsexualism” after just two 30-minute appointments and a psychiatrist recommended he take medication to block his testosterone production. By 2015 he was attending appointments at the NHS gender clinic in Newcastle. He says that he twice turned down vaginoplasty surgery, before having an operation in 2018 after being told that he would be discharged if he did not take it up."

And:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p097xwkf/a-change-of-sex

I accept the cold, uncaring way in which Julia's psychiatrist speaks and comes off in that series. But the difference in timing and being operated on couldn't be starker.

Blog by Tullip’s lawyer

www.harthanbarrister.com/blog/files/44eca404b30952053e28c53829866deb-5.html

“Montgomery v Lanarkshire [2015] UKSC 11 is the leading authority in relation to consent in English Law. The test is that a doctor is under a duty to take reasonable care to ensure that the patient is aware of any material risks involved in any recommended treatment, and of any reasonable alternative or variant treatments. The purpose of obtaining informed consent is so that the patient understands the severity of the condition, the advantages and disadvantages of treatment, and the existence of any alternative treatments.

A clinician treating Gender Dysphoria exclusively through the lens of a pathway to transition, excluding alternative treatments and alternative diagnoses, would likely be in breach of their clinical responsibilities. The clinician has a duty to contain and consider properly the patients treatment demands. The clinician must retain the capacity to identify red flags and apply the brakes or change direction. Above all else the clinician has a duty to do no harm, to avoid exposing patients to additional risks arising from their intervention.

I am grateful to those detransitioners who have contacted me with a view to bringing a clinical negligence action. They are brave people and I will put my heart and soul into working for them. As for the clinicians who did not dare to be wise and failed to resist being swept along with an ideological tide, well the tide has turned and they may soon need to account for their actions.”

Why did he fear being "discharged" though? I understand that for many the transition may go on for years and years and no surgery is opted for at all. What did being "discharged" mean in real terms? Does it mean he would have had to go back on a waiting list?

@SkeletonFight I'd assume discharged would mean having to go back to the GP for referral and start the whole process again. Not just going to the bottom of the que.

Being discharged can mean going back to the beginning of the waiting list. It can also mean a lack of access to hormones if your GP is unwilling to take that on- many GPs don’t feel qualified to do so.

This isn't treatment for gender dysphoria, at least it's supposed to be but there's no evidence it works.
He was told it was going to work, and that if he didn't continue down the surgical pathway he couldn't have any more therapy either.

Yes. It might also have had potential commissioning implications if the CCG decided to restrict or limit what they would fund in the future.

I don't know what his employer's conditions are for healthcare leave, perhaps that might have to be supported by involvement of secondary care.

I'm take aback at the recent additional details that he'd not met the surgeon before the surgery etc. It will be interesting to see the chronology of who did what and when and who took Tullip through the informed consent processes.