Two journos quit "transphobic" guardian

[puffyisgood]

Apologies if covered elsewhere, I didn't see it.

www.vice.com/en/article/g5vx8j/guardian-trans-journalists

As far as I can tell mostly triggered by a single article written about the 'cotton ceiling' in the light of its prominence in the Bailey v Stonewall etc tribunal - www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/29/if-lesbian-prefers-same-sex-dates-thats-not-bigotry-desire-personal-thing.

All seems a bit silly to me, regardless of which 'side' you're on. I don't know when things became so ludicrously tribal, I'm [sadly] old enough to remember the days when the Daily Mail gave a column to Roy Hattersley in the interests of balance. A very different time...

Did that thread/posts get deleted? I hope it did, I cannot fathom why anyone, feminist or not, would think that blackface is something to support.

I suppose it's the consequence of people self identifying as journalists rather than having the qualifications and experience of reporting news in a democratic society

🤣

Well said, @MrsOvertonsWindow

I guess the thing is though, if they wanted this to be equitable than no male should write about being a woman as that is an uninformed opinion.

My thoughts exactly. That bit jumped out at me too. That they can't see where that leads - and really think women don't have any kind of stake in what TRA demand (and I can't remember if it was Hunte or the other two who very much called them 'demands in this instance) it is very telling.

What is it with this board and the dogged racism?

What is it with every thread being derailed with accusations of racism?

(Answer: TRAs knowing they cannot win the argument, so trying to disguise their humiliating defeat by throwing up as much mess as possible)

The thread is still there, but MNHQ deleted the pictures of Mr Menno in blackface after they were reported for racism.

Is the Menno / Blackface thing the full body suit and nappy combination? As opposed to "normal", "make-up" blackface?

Seems a bit (very?) misguided of Menno, but not 100% sure I call it blackface.

FWIW I think of blackface like womanface. I don't believe that it is right to say that a white person pretending to be black is always wrong, I believe that very occasionally it can be done in a way that is not massively offensive to black people. I would, for example, find it very hard to criticise as theatre company who were making an anti-racist play featuring a racist white character who is shown up for his bigotry and stupidity after turning up on a stag do in black face.

Just like men who dress up as women. I am not going to say that every single drag act and trans woman is a deeply offensive misogynist - I am sure that on occasion men play at being women in a way that is not deeply offensive. If an all-boys school decided to put on a sixth form play celebrating women's acheivement in science and respectfully portrayed a series of female scientists using the only actors available - male ones - then that would probably be OK.

Also worth noting that one can put black make-up on your face without it being blackface (eg white soldiers mights smear black make-up before a night-raid). Likewise men can have long hair or way make up or even wear dresses without it being a parody of women (eg I don't think Kurt Cobain ever looked like he was presenting as a woman, despite having long-ish hair and often wearing make-up and a dress).

I've not heard of this Mr Menno character and I wouldn't for one second defend that choice of costume nor the reference that he was relating it to. There's no need for anyone to dress up in an outfit that could cause offence. If he wanted to parody the people who disrupt women's meetings by wearing all black and hiding their faces, he could have done so without that bizarre bodysuit.

At a quick glance it seems this dramatic act of career self harm has made very little impact.

OJ hasn't even acknowledged it - not even clear he's aware.

I don't see anyone much even talking about it. I wonder what it is about these particular trans people that means the rest of the rainbow family effectively shrugs and carries on?

Owen Jones would never spend time standing up for two females when he could be retweeting attacks on lesbians instead.

You've never heard of Mr Menno? Mr Menno who's supported many women's rallies and given speeches and sung songs supporting women and LGB people?

Swivelling away from whom he really wants to attack, and instead going for the LGBA who are of course, founded by two lesbians.

I do find it hard to believe he's not aware of Ben Hunte's article, or Freddie and Vic's resignation. And astonishing that he's not even going to say anythng to support them.

What absolutely complete and unmitigated bollocks

You are the one obsessed with Malcolm X (and indeed LOJ's) race. People who use the Talcum X nick name are acknowledging Malcolm X's standing and achievements and contrasting them with Sanctimonious Morph's.

All you can see is his race.

I don't use 'Talcum X' because I don't think it's funny. But racist it ain't.

man alive. that tweet from Amazon Eve, who appears to be a real person with a real career.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Eve

now that's racism folks

Now it's this, last week it was blackface, before that it was calling a black woman 'uppity', before that the Karen debacle and so on and so on

We see you.

Maybe you should read this thread in FC

www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4531682-why-do-lots-of-black-women-still-feel-that-feminism-is-nit-for-them

Mr Menno was dressing up like the TRAs who invaded JKJ's event in Manchester.

Isn't it weird how no one is accusing them of blackface but are accusing Mr Menno of it?

So these people on the left are not doing blackface but the guy on the right is?

And if you can find any feminist calling another woman uppity or Karen in the FWR boards @E2E4, I'll send you a tenner.

And if you can find any feminist calling another woman uppity or Karen in the FWR boards @E2E4, I'll send you a tenner.

Literally the 8th post down (now rightfully deleted) in the link I posted

www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4531682-why-do-lots-of-black-women-still-feel-that-feminism-is-nit-for-them

You can send that tenner to the London Black Women's Project.

www.lbwp.co.uk/support-us

Such lame attempts at derailing. It just distracts from the fact that Ben Hunte and his pseudo journalist friends’ story is getting ratioed to fuck on Twitter:

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenInLDN/status/1534865239996497921

You can stamp your feet, have your little tantrums, generate false offence all you want, but the tide is not turning, it’s well and truly turned. People aren’t afraid to say the Emperor has no clothes anymore. It’s glorious to see, a ratio like that would have been unheard of 2 years ago. Finally we might have some proper journalism, some investigation into children being medicalised for life on low evidence, some protection for women’s rights. All you do, when you falsely claim “racism!” and other such bollocks is make more and more people realise how desperate you are to distract from the truth. You’re destroying your own cause, because facts will always win out in the end.

Sorry, I haven't read all the thread, but the Guardian being Transpobic has to be a joke. Of all the media, they have drunk the Kool Aid. Particularly with respect to TWs.

I'm sorry these two journalists won't be writing for the Guardian any longer, as their experiences are interesting and valuable, but their demands are unreasonable. The articles cited in the Vice piece are either opinion pieces that explore gender theory or ordinary reporting. I'd don't want these to be silenced.

Literally the 8th post down (now rightfully deleted) in the link I posted

Yes, deleted because it was a troll, not a feminist. Try again.

That Amazon Eve on twitter! That's racism, not deleted or taken down (last time I checked) but unrepentant and amplified. I suppose you could argue it's whataboutery, but regardless that, imo, is racism. While the worst I've seen on these boards is poor choice of language and a reluctance to back down. But outright racism? Rare as outright transphobia. The accusations do serve well to derail threads when there's no legitimate way to.

That was someone calling out another poster for calling black women sneering as far as I can tell.

But I'll donate to the London Black Women's Project happily

I'm sorry these two journalists won't be writing for the Guardian any longer, as their experiences are interesting and valuable

🤣🤣🤣

So it looks like a fair few people have linked Owen in their responses to Ben Hunte's story. And that's actually been two days now, during which time he's said nothing? Crikey.

Come on, Owen, where are your morals? How can you keep writing for such a transphobic rag as the Graun?