Two journos quit "transphobic" guardian

[puffyisgood]

Apologies if covered elsewhere, I didn't see it.

www.vice.com/en/article/g5vx8j/guardian-trans-journalists

As far as I can tell mostly triggered by a single article written about the 'cotton ceiling' in the light of its prominence in the Bailey v Stonewall etc tribunal - www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/29/if-lesbian-prefers-same-sex-dates-thats-not-bigotry-desire-personal-thing.

All seems a bit silly to me, regardless of which 'side' you're on. I don't know when things became so ludicrously tribal, I'm [sadly] old enough to remember the days when the Daily Mail gave a column to Roy Hattersley in the interests of balance. A very different time...

I can see it could be interpreted in two very different ways and I'm happy not to use it.

And now maybe someone can also explain how Sonia Sodha's article, which wasn't published in the Guardian, could have caused such a reaction from two writers who aren't even employed by the Guardian.

“McConnell and Parsons list several demands within their letter. They want the Guardian to change its editorial approach to trans people, asking bosses to prioritise the lived experiences of trans people over “paying writers who are not trans to express uninformed opinions”. They also ask for a change in the newspaper’s editorial stance to reflect that trans women having rights does not disadvantage cis women.”

Why don’t they let people with continuing lived experience of being biologically woman decide if transwomen’s rights disadvantage women?

Here's the actual letter:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jG_nLylUKBC6Pxta4--VvksZaOQaQc1ecO15TMvGGyc/edit

They say that Sodha's article makes a couple of untrue allegations. Specifically: falsely claiming there are “long term health consequences” for trans young people accessing gender-affirming care, falsely claiming young trans people have “surgeries”

I find this very odd. McConnell has complained at not being able to breastfeed because the surgeon didn't say that a radical double mastectomy would remove milk ducts. Is that not a long term health consequence? What about vaginal atrophy? Also well documented. Or the second baby being born early and with a poorly developed placenta - a documented side effect of testosterone on developing foetuses.

According to McConnell's wiki page, McConnell was 23 when they decided they were trans, immediately started on T and had a double mastectomy a year later.

Keira Bell was 20 when she had a double mastectomy. 16 when she was put on testosterone.

I would consider them both young people.

I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing. But it ends with a demand that men and women shouldn't have the right to comment on trans people. As ever, the respect is a one way street

This is EXACTLY what The Guardian, and the likes of LOJ, deserve.

@Clymene

I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing. But it ends with a demand that men and women shouldn't have the right to comment on trans people. As ever, the respect is a one way street.

And so is empathy. Only one side in this debate is expected to have empathy.

I read those demands to state that there can be no debate and that their side has already won on the ethical grounds they hold. The conflict of rights and demands for rights is declared not to exist so it cannot be discussed any further. It's just more of the same.

I think it measures and shows up LOJ's self-perceived 'battle against oppression' and view of himself as a leader in that fight against a truly great man. I think LOJ suffers, badly, in the comparison. Actually, I'd argue the case against using it is that he's not worthy. Not remotely.

Is would be bad enough if everyone here thought that Owen Jones was fantastic, it's still drawing attention to the black/white juxtaposition. But seeing as he's very unpopular here then it's making light of one of the greatest black human rights activists ever.

There's absolutely no need to use it, especially today when British feminists (thanks Dr Jane Clare Jones) are being called out on their racism again.

I will stop using it if people find it offensive @Mauvorge but it really isn't making light of Malcolm X. Quite the opposite.

Off topic but does anyone know why there is still a crowd funder up for Freddy to give birth in Sweden which ultimately did not happen due to medical complications. Crowd funder is still up and accepting donations despite child being born at the start of the year. Don't think I'm allowed to link to it but its easy to find. Is it not dishonest to keep peoples money?

I guess the thing is though, if they wanted this to be equitable than no male should write about being a woman as that is an uninformed opinion. Trans women having rights does not disadvantage women as long as the rights they expect are not those reserved for women. No-one is trying to stop transwomen having rights are they? They're just trying to keep them out of spaces reserved for females.

ah, Owen breaks his silence on the LGBTQIA+ issue of the day!

To attack the LGB Alliance.

puffyisgood ·yeah, regarding the ending quote,

“If you call yourself a trans ally, this is the moment for you to do something. Yes, it might come at a financial cost to not have a working relationship with The Guardian, as it does for me and Freddy, but sometimes you have to do what's right."

LOL so very self-important

I’ve said this before, but Freddy really isn’t very clever. Freddy is not the sort of person you want being a “pioneer” in your movement when Freddy can’t string any logical argument together. Freddy’s own words demonstrate how Freddy wasn’t properly consented and didn’t fully understand the implications of having nipples removed. Freddy was 28 when this happened. Freddy ignores the teenage girls doing exactly the same thing and doesn’t see any harm. Freddy is a dangerous idiot.

No idea who the other person is and not sure why I should care.

… publishing a book called Defending Women’s Spaces by Karen Ingala Smith, a gender critical feminist …

I will make sure that’s in stock where I work, when it comes out, thank you 😆

I doubt the guardian will care. There are many many aspiring journalists biting at the bit for a foot in the door.

It's Freddie McConnel and Vic Parsons. They're just freelances who occasionally have material published in the Guardian. They won't be missed.

I think the word “ journalist “ can only be applied loosely when describing those two and wee Owen.

Gender ideologybis homophobic. They are supporting homophobia and an antiwomen stance but expecting others to work with them.

🤣🤣🤣

That’s hilarious. Talcum X is a “racist dog whistle”?! Er, no.

It’s satirising LOJ’s self importance. Malcolm X was important, dealing with a monumental moment in history with the civil rights movement. LOJ thinks he’s just as important, a champion of the working class and trans people, leading the charge against the oppressors. The reality is he’s a baby powder puff version who thinks Twittering nonsense and being an active YouTuber is putting him front and centre of the “right side of history”. It’s LOJ who is insulting people who actually did stuff with their lives, not just wrote mantruming columns in a safe space from time to time.

Douglas Murray quoted Ben Hunte's tweet with the comment: I appear to be watching a snake eating it’s own tail. Wonderful.

In a totally bizarre turn of events, a male transitioner (with a blue tick authenticated account) is going viral for replying to that with an astonishingly racist tweet. And some trans activists are actually in the comments, arguing in support of the comment. Why?!

Male transitioner: Douglas if you call trans-women men we will call out Blacks low IQs as the reason for inequality. You hurt us we hurt you back. If truth is the goal, right?

I have no words for this. None.

Twitter link

Talcum X was a nickname originally given to Shaun King the American grifter posing as a social justice campaigner who claims to be black but seems may actually be white. I've never understood the MN usage of Talcum X when referring to Owen Jones.

I'm not sure I'd put it that way, it seems like the implication is they don't have any agency in this.

Women can be very much TRAs and will bring out all the tools women use when they want to win by any means, charachter assasination, cutting people out, socially etc. And some of the transmen who are activists are, not surprisingly, very similar. They aren't being coerced and not all are unwitting, many are invested in the cause.

Maybe because he pretends to be working class when actually he isn't?

I saw it first on Twitter, but was it born here? The way I read the term is that Owen Jones sees himself as a freedom fighter in the mold of Malcolm X, yet is nothing of the sort at all.

Talcum X is a 'racist dogwhistle'? What does that phrase even mean?

As far as I'm concerned, it's fine to use it, not least because of the deep-seated misogyny that both of these penis-heroes engaged or engage in.

What is it with this board and the dogged racism?

Women here were defending blackface last week and now this.