Waitrose delivery driver

[MsMoorhead]

Kellie Jay-Keen reported by her Waitrose delivery driver!

Well, she goes on a bit, mainly about her own products, but I am cancelling my Waitrose order as we speak and composing an email explaining to them why.
I am particularly disturbed by 'I'll take my time.' Absolutely exercising power.

You'd have to be astonishingly naive or a lying trans activist not to see this as a set up on the part of the driver.

He went there for a fight.

I agree with you.

I also note that Scotland was very close to implementing something like this to the point where wrongthink at your own dinner table would have been reportable as part of the Hate Crime Bill there.

Depending on the outcome of the current consultation in Scotland, we may yet see crimes that are local to Scotland that have ripples and consequences throughout England, Wales, NI, and various other bits of land.

Waitrose/John Lewis have form in this, though. Remember the home insurance ad, that they had to pull, it got so much criticism ? (as well as actually misrepresenting the cover offered).

Oh no, I've just found some amazing smelling cleaning products that Waitrose sell.... never mind will have to go elsewhere now.

I find their vegan range pretty poor, and find Sainsburys better.
No more Waitrose for me unless they apologise to KJK.
The comments about using toilets with her daughter, and refusing to leave when asked (he said I'll take my time) are disgusting from someone providing a service.

deliberately misgendering a trans person is not only rude but a hate crime in Canada

Correctly sexing somebody is not rude.

But even if Discovereads’ account was 100% true and accurate, the delivery driver’s behaviour was appalling!

Discovereads, do you genuinely not understand this? Your account, intended to support the delivery person, reveals their aggression clearly. So the frightening thing is that must seem acceptable to people like you.

I wonder if Discoverreads has any idea who we're talking about here. I can't imagine a world where Posie/Kellie wouldn't take this man to task for using female spaces, nor would she let the rest of it go. Ever. Good on her.

This man was completely in the wrong & Waitrose need to take action.

So......the delivery driver started it then?

@YetAnotherSpartacus "...First, she had signs up in her window she said they said “woman: adult human female” so on. As she is entitled to have. Free speech innit. Afterall, there's plenty of rainbow flags about. What's difference?..."

The point you raise about rainbow flags is bang on.What would be the response if a delivery driver confronted a customer about a rainbow flag?

That sounds really scary. If I were her I'd be requesting that man was removed from deliveries within a 2 mile radius of my home, at the very least. Very worrying he has access to her address. Yes, she clearly is a tough cookie and takes no shit, but the fact is someone who could easily overpower her did this power play and made veiled threats about her daughter.
That would fucking terrify me.
Waitrose off my 'posh treats' shop list now, along with M and S and their spunky spanks. So down to Sainsbury's unless there is something I should know about them?
I'd also be logging it with the police as it could escalate to harassment/stalker level. Not that they'll do much in their rainbow cars but good to have a record.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Fortunately, it was made explicit when the GRA was being debated in the House of Lords in Jan 2004 that no-one, in their capacity as a private citizen, is required to acknowledge a man who claims he is not a man or a woman who claims she is not a woman, even of they have a GRC.

See Lord Filkin and Baroness Hollis below:

api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/2004/jan/29/gender-recognition-bill-hl#S5LV0656P0_20040129_HOL_228

This means it is extremely unlikely that so-called "misgendering" will ever have any relevance in law in Britain. Apart from that, there is the human rights issue of free speech. Compelled speech is disallowed.

And yet for years posters were banned from this very forum for the "crime" of doing just that.

Yes, absolutely.

God, this post, though... I hadn't actually realised the law was so clear.

How did we get where we are with this hate speech thing?
It's mystifying.

For the trans ally, everything KJK said was reasonable, repeating this on a feminist message board is not going to light any so called 'epiphanies'. Woman: Adult Human Female is hardly aggressive.

Everything in your post just confirms to me that some T people just don't like to hear the word no, 'need' validation. And that's before we even go into how unprofessional and rude he was. I worked in customer service and although I certainly didn't take any rubbish from rude customers this is not what happened here, he deliberately started a fight with a customer.

As a male on her property, would also have been intimidating, just unacceptable bizarre behaviour, surely allies can't actually endorse this?

This is absolutely bloody horrifying, an aggressive male refusing to leave your home. Was she alone at home too? I'm also absolutely gobsmacked that any so-called "ally" would come here and defend this. I couldn't care less how polite or impolite Posie was to this trespasser.

Given that this is unlikely to have been a coincidence, I think Waitrose should be challenged on whether customer data has been misused. Surely delivery drivers shouldn't be free to rummage about in the data to satisfy their own vendettas.

Yup. I’ve just made an order before reading this. It’ll be my last.

Let's just zero in on Discovereads opinions here.

she was very rude and bigoted towards a transwoman by deliberately misgendering them, telling them not to use womens spaces and ordering them off her property. I think the driver was right to lodge a complaint on those grounds alone. I think Waitrose was right to send her a warning letter.

As Kelly-Jay was speaking to this driver, and thus using the pronoun you, no misgendering could have been happening. So that leaves Discovereads claiming that Kelly-Jay was "very rude and bigoted" because she said not to use women's spaces and ordered someone else to leave her property. Women are now expected to nod and smile when male transitioners are on our private property? It's all safe space this, safe space that, except for women!

What would she have to do to not be a bigot? Lie down on the driveway and be a literal doormat for the driver?

I want everyone on this forum to think about all this and ask, where is the line?

Is there anywhere where a woman's wishes outweigh a male transitioner's?

We can't have female-only spaces in public. Not even rape crisis provision. We're mockingly told that it is up to stores and businesses to use the single-sex exceptions, and they don't have to exercise them if they don't want to. So we have feminist meetings and conferences, and we exercise those exceptions at the meetings. So male transitioners attend and insist on using the women's toilets there! It's just a giant dominance display.

And now we have an activist saying a woman is rude and bigoted if she asks a male transitioner to leave her own property.

Sigh, watch the video @PurgatoryOfPotholes
As Kelly-Jay was speaking to this driver, and thus using the pronoun you, no misgendering could have been happening.

KJK told a transwoman to her face that they were not a woman but a man. That’s clear cut misgendering.

You acknowledge that KJK was using the terms woman and man? It follows that she was using descriptors of sex classes…

I doubt KJK has ever "gendered" anyone at least in the last 5 years, "mis" or not.

She's renowned for only sexing people.