Waitrose delivery driver

[MsMoorhead]

Kellie Jay-Keen reported by her Waitrose delivery driver!

Wow, mn admin are a bit hypersensitive on this forum. Can't believe they deleted my post. Kellie says which branch it was in that clip and it hardly identifies me if you know that I shop in the same branch sometimes. For info, I don't live in the town that this shop is in.

Given the direction of the overzealous moderation on this board at the moment, I would put money on the concern being the protection of the identity of the Waitrose employee…

I have to say that there is little that annoys me more than companies or their staff who try to silence complainants because the complainant is so angry and frustrated that they have sworn.

Obviously directly abusing staff using wear words is different to simply swearing.

IIRC Posies swearing started after he admonished her political views, gave his own deeply offensive views which directly infringe on the rights of the customer and maybe even refused to promoptly leave her house when told to do so. I would be seriously fucked off if a company suggested that such swearing is unreasonable.

From what I remember of the vid,, he started to challenge her on her political views, she told him to get off her property, and when he backchatted and dragged his heels she (presumably) told him to fuck off.

I understand swearing at service providers is not on. But a man is on her property, on her doorstep, challenging her on her own political views, and then displaying male dominance by telling her he will leave her property in his own good time.

Would a man answering the door be expected to keep his cool? If the delivery driver started challenging him on a slogan on his T-shirt? And gleefully telling him that he was going to be sharing changing rooms with his daughter whether he liked it or not. And then telling him that he was going to leave his property in his own good time?

Or would telling him to fuck off be considered somewhat mild under the circumstances?

Does she not say she used colourful language only after she politely asked the employee to leave her property & the employee refused to leave? I think she quotes the driver as saying, "I'll take my time," which I would hear as a direct insult & a power move, if I were in that position: it would make me afraid, to have a hostile male in my house who's refusing to leave - wouldn't any us feel threatened in that position?

Sometimes a quick change of tack & some unexpected 'bad' language can get rid of an unwanted male, when it would be impossible for a female to eject the male physically.

This situation wouldn't arise in call centre work: the employee is not in the customer's house, & the customer can always put the phone down (though I guess the employee can't always do that without breaking company rules). So it's not the same thing.

Also, isn't a householder allowed to use reasonable or proportionate force to get a trespasser off their property? If that doesn't include 'bad' language then it should.

Could be StandUpStraight. I hadn't thought of that.

I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't doxing anyone when it was right there in the publicly available clip for anyone to see. Possibly Posy should not have done that though.

Just saw the previous post saying the driver was on the doorstep, not in the house. Still unpleasant, though.

He said he'd use the toilets with her daughter because he liked using them. She asked him to leave her property and he replied he'd take his time.

And you wouldn't have sworn at that point @respectmysex? I would have been frightened. KJ is tiny. The man was deliberately trying to intimidate her.

I mean, Waitrose could always ask him. Did you tell the customer that you could be using the changing room where her daughter was disrobing, whether she liked it or not?

Because Kellie Jay asks absolutely every tw if they're going to be changing with her teenage daughter. It's an integral part of her campaigning questions.

I have zero doubt that she asked that question.

And if he denies he said it to her, he could always be asked, well would you?

Let's get this out in the open, Waitrose.

Do you agree that your male delivery drivers should be allowed to change with your customers' teenage daughters?

Obviously I wasn't there, but I'd say it's perfectly okay to switch to colourful language when politeness fails and there are implied threats issued by the male in question. I doubt I'd have kept it civil under those circumstances, what a chuffing creep.

Omg you couldn’t make it up! It’s like the bloody Stasi being challenged on your perfectly reasonable views. Outrageous- expected more of Waitrose. And very intimidating for the customer too.

Hope this makes the Daily Mail, was speechless when I first read about it. I think Waitrose should be doing a full investigation. I find it very hard to believe he turned up at her house by chance, I mean what are the odds. It's actually quite sinister and intimidating and they need to look into it.

Full disclosure, I am a trans ally and not interested in getting into a trans rights debate.

First, she had signs up in her window she said they said “woman: adult human female” so on. The delivery driver who was a trans woman asked: what are the signs in her window? and KJK explained she fought for womens rights. The driver responded, so that includes transwomen then? And KJK said no. The driver said, well I’m not a man. And KJK said yes you are a man and I don’t care what you think you are but don’t use womens spaces (btw deliberately misgendering a trans person is not only rude but a hate crime in Canada). The driver responded well I don’t feel comfortable in the mens. KJK said it’s not womens responsibility to make him comfortable and that more women are uncomfortable than just him if he uses the womens room. The diver said well I’m not going to stop using the womens room because it’s where I belong and I like to. KJK said get off my property. Driver said I’ll take my time. KJK said in “colourful language” to get off her property.

KJK then goes on a ramble about some documentary but then comes back to say she got a letter from Waitrose saying she’d used abusive language to the driver. She then said she wrote back “Carol” and at that point she claims the driver said they liked to use the same changing rooms as her daughter?

Anyway, it’s all pretty disjointed as she can’t even tell her side of the story coherently.

Even if she did not swear at the delivery driver she was very rude and bigoted towards a transwoman by deliberately misgendering them, telling them not to use womens spaces and ordering them off her property. I think the driver was right to lodge a complaint on those grounds alone. I think Waitrose was right to send her a warning letter.

That's nice, dear.

Luckily we don't live in the woke hellhole that is Canada but in a country where women don't have to use compelled speech.

Also luckily women can watch KJK's video themselves because your summary is ver poor @Discovereads

A delivery driver has no business telling a customer their political views are ok or not. They are there to deliver groceries, not to hold a debate. Personally, I am positive this driver deliberately went there to make trouble. Why on earth would a delivery driver, who gets paid per delivery, otherwise take their time to hold a debate?

Misgendering is also not a crime in the UK. Calling a transwoman a man is not hate speech when discussing single sex facilities. Women are still free to use clear and precise language when they want. And deliberately goading and intimidating a customer who is female when you are male should not be ok in anyone's book.

Waitrose should have talked to KJK first, I bet they know who she is and send the letter to get brownie points during Pride month. Well, I hope all the TQ's buy loads from them then.

Full disclosure, I am a trans ally and not interested in getting into a trans rights debate.

#NoDebate
#NoEngagement

We see you. And your very selective interests that don't include women's rights or an understanding of EqA 2010.

If I were the manager tasked with investigating a complaint about an abusive customer, where the customer has sworn and the driver has not sworn, I'd have to side with the driver.

You'd do that without talking to the customer? I'd normally have expected that if the transaction and incident involved had taken place on a company's premises. This dispute was on Posie's property and inside her house? The driver had refused to leave? That's a very different dynamic and potentially more intimidating.

Well, to be fair, if the waitrose in question has 6 delivery drivers (total guess), and Posie shops once a week, then one might expect that this nasty young man will turn up once every six weeks on average and Posie is likely to have encountered him in the first couple of months of his employment with Waitrose.

We're not in Canada. I doubt any tw would be unaware what the signs meant and, in my opinion, they were being goady and looking to start a.....well, let's be charitable....debate. However, they were there to deliver groceries not correct their customer's thinking. If this thread is going to bring in other countries, what might have happened in the US if you refused to leave someone's property?

@GCRich Waitrose have responded to the one complaint that they had, that is not unreasonable
It wouldn't be, if that were the case. However...

KJK posted about her experience with the Waitrose driver on 9 May.
I was really annoyed. The man had no right to do that.
I contacted Waitrose.

'Your delivery driver challenged Kellie-Jay Keen * on her political activities. She talks about it here. This is inappropriate, and absolutely shocking. When delivering groceries, it is not a person's business to be addressing the customer's politics. The fact that the delivery person was willing to do this, and to tell KJ that the person will routinely use women's spaces despite not being a natal woman, which is an aggressive stance to take, is quite threatening. This person has KJ's home address. Will they share that with anti-feminist activists, putting KJ, her husband and four children at risk? What are you going to do about a delivery person who behaves in this way?'

Good Morning
I hope you are well.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
We will investigating this with the branch.
Thanks again for letting us know
Take Care
Kind regards
[name]

No further response after that, but if they did speak to the driver, his accusations against KJK might have been to cover his back.

This. I bet the delivery driver wouldn't have behaved like that if she was a 6ft 4 rugby player look-alike. Pure domineering male entitlement.

Waitrose are so stupid. They are alienating their customer without at least asking for clarification from her side too... imagine receiving that letter FFS.

First, she had signs up in her window she said they said “woman: adult human female” so on.

As she is entitled to have. Free speech innit. Afterall, there's plenty of rainbow flags about. What's difference?

The delivery driver who was a trans woman asked: what are the signs in her window?

The delivery driver should have done the job and kept the gob closed.

End of.

@LK1972

This. I bet the delivery driver wouldn't have behaved like that if she was a 6ft 4 rugby player look-alike. Pure domineering male entitlement.

I am not for one second denying the male entitlement aspect of this, but I think that you might underestimate that male entitlement (combined with arrogance and bravado) often extends to men behaving in a domineering way even when the physical odds are much less biased in their favour. That said I would not be at all surprised to find that as a group TRAs are more likely to threaten women and less likely to threaten other men, when compared to other groups of men.

The delivery driver should have done the job and kept the gob closed.

I can buy the argument that a sign in the window is a starting point for small talk. Perhaps ill-advised, but I don't particularly mind that he asked. BUT, obviously, no company should tolerate it's staff arguing with customers over politics. If he was unable to agree with Posie's position it was time to switch the small-talk to the weather or Britain's Got Talent.