Transwomen are really upset by HRT shortages

[Smileandactlikeitsfine]

It makes their moods all over the place.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/hrt-crisis-impact-on-trans-community_uk_627bbc19e4b009a811cc19f3/

I mean us perimenopausal women take hrt for few other essential functions as well, but just as long as your moods are even mate.

But by not viewing them as women you are viewing them as less then

No I don't. I just view them as their sex.

Right but why is the majority of feminist discussion at least on MumsNet focused around such a small subset of Trans Women.

Because of the damage such a small group is doing. Its affecting us.

Why is such a small minority being allowed so much authority over others? Women's rights are being decimated and so is our language. No one gave those rights to us, we had to organise and fight for them. We funded and built those organisations.

I'm happy listening to women and most of the Women I know support other Trans Women, many have Trans friends.

It's not the place of male people to sit in judgement on which women's rights you think are valid and only consider the feelings and concerns of those you agree with. Would you do that with any other oppressed group of people?

@Waitwhat23

There are some very obvious concerns here and I can understand why a lot of this could be problematic.

I understand why you would want to fight against something like this. Especially the self id policy but that comes back to the idea of "A crossdresser who is a man". There is a big distinction between this type of person and a Trans person.

Anyone can say they are Trans to get out of a Rape accusation or be given a lower sentence or sent to a different prison etc... and unfortunately all Trans people get lumped into one giant group. It's like saying all men are sexist women hating bigots, it isn't true.

Exactly! Being ignored is the new norm….I’m nowhere near even getting any HRT for menopause….mood swings are taking over my life…..as well as random bleeding, prolapse, and losing my mind!!!!

There is a big distinction between this type of person and a Trans person.

Not according to trans lobby groups, there isn't.

Well that's an issue to fight for but calling a Trans Women a Man is not going to help. It's going to provide yet more backlash and accomplish nothing

Well that's an issue to fight for but calling a Trans Women a Man is not going to help

So you admit you're not particularly well informed about this issue. Point out where I did. I have referred to their biological sex.

Ironically, your comment also applies to calling women ‘cis woman’.

Anyone can say they are Trans to get out of a Rape accusation or be given a lower sentence or sent to a different prison etc... and unfortunately all Trans people get lumped into one giant group. It's like saying all men are sexist women hating bigots, it isn't true.

Yes. That is the concern. That is what we are fighting for, protesting about, signing petitions, writing to our elected representatives.

With self id, any male can identify into single sex spaces. Predatory males, however they identify, will take advantage of that. It's stunningly naive to think they won't.

That's not saying all men are predatory. Or all transwomen are predatory. That's just hyperbole which is trotted out to silence the debate.

It is saying that those who are will take advantage of loopholes and the general silencing effect to cause harm. It is already happening. Risk assessing and safe guards which were in place to stop such things happening have been blasted away under an ideology which brooks no disagreement.

Ereshkigalangcleg
There is a big distinction between this type of person and a Trans person.
Not according to trans lobby groups, there isn't.

Well that's an issue to fight for

No, its not our problem. Single sex spaces and services were created to fulfill a need. Arguing about how to let good men in and keep bad men out is a pointless and useless waste of energy.
Stop talking about the decimation of womens rights as if its a done deal. We are still here.

Just to make it clear, using the word other in a sentence like “women I know support other transwomen” is inaccurate.

Women are not other transwomen, and transwomen are not other women. The two are separate. Separate sexes. Separate genes. Seperate physiologies.

I'm adding the words 'for the last time' and 'finally' because i'm on my own at the moment which is a shame and this discussion has been going on for a while now.

I also never intended to shut anyone up. What I can't understand is others getting offended about a word that isn't offensive.

Also consider that feminine men are often seen as deceptive and in the eyes of some disgusting in the eyes of others, especially if they decide to cross dress. If they cross dress there is often very little distinction between themselves and a trans women and they are likely to get the same amount of hatred and discrimination from others.

Some Trans Women follow stereotypes but most don't. Most still keep the same Male hobbies they had before and only go overboard on makeup to make sure they pass and wont suffer abuse after they leave the door.

Right so how would you distinguish it then?

Well said @Waitwhat23 this sums it up exactly. We are fighting to protect the vulnerable and prevent the potential abuse/misuse by predatory people.

''Separate sexes. Separate genes. Seperate physiologies.''

''Right so how would you distinguish it then?''

Separate sexes. HTH.

I wouldn't ever walk up to a Women and call them a Cis Women, that would be stupid. It's a term used to distinguish Trans Women from other Women assigned female at birth.

So just use ‘women’ and ‘trans women’. I’m not sure why this is causing you confusion.

Then why can’t you understand why women want to be able to apply the same respect and standards to women’s rights, to women’s spaces, to women’s rights to use the language that describes our bodies without being shouted down, abused and threatened. Our existence as women is being subsumed and erased, all we want is to be acknowledged as the unique sex that carries the Genetic heritage that , if we want to and are able to, allows us to bear and nurture children in bodies that have been designed for that purpose. Imitations are not the real deal.

Well yes it's fine to use that now I know everyone on here just uses the word Women to describe Cis Women but most communities appreciate the distinction if not purely to make it easier to read and understand

all we want is to be acknowledged as the unique sex that carries the Genetic heritage that , if we want to and are able to, allows us to bear and nurture children in bodies that have been designed for that purpose

So what you're saying is you want the main distinction between a man and a women to be that one can bare a child and the other cannot.
I know this is MumsNet but there has to be more than that surely. I mean a lot of women choose not to have Children, increasingly so, if you told them that the main characteristic that distinguishes them from a man is there ability to bear a child you are reverting back to a time feminism didn't exist

Just use ‘women’ and ‘trans women’. Thanks.

but most communities appreciate the distinction

Not the gender critical feminist community, as it's incredibly presumptuous about our beliefs, as I'm sure you realise. Women are women, and we only come in one sex.

So what you're saying is you want the main distinction between a man and a women to be that one can bare a child and the other cannot.

What anyone wants is immaterial, it's the biological reality of women and girls that our bodies have evolved to fulfil that reproductive role. At an individual level it often doesn't happen, but that's the point of sex and gender.