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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stella Creasy says women can have penises

517 replies

WhereAreWeNow · 28/05/2022 06:13

Stella Creasy has doubled down on her TWAW position in today's Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

OP posts:
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9
miri1985 · 29/05/2022 03:01

Stella Creasy wanted to make misogyny a hate crime but also can't give a definition of woman other than some might have penises?

Can you be convicted of a hate crime for a protected characteristic you have? If self ID was in place and a man was being accused of the hate crime of misogyny wouldn't he just ID as a woman. Would be very difficult to prove that you hated women if you'd chosen to "become" one.

"Do I recognise that there are very real concerns about refuges and safe spaces? Yes." How on earth does that tally with self ID? How on earth do you describe a concern as real while also wanting to smash through that boundary with a self ID sledgehammer.

If Stella really wants more representation of Mothers in Parliament she should give up her safe seat to a fellow Mother and go and run somewhere competitive as she now has gained 12 years of experience as an MP

WhereAreWeNow · 29/05/2022 07:02

PrelateChuckles · 28/05/2022 22:59

My default question is always "are they lying, or thick?"

I don't actually think she is thick and believes that mad shit is logical. I think she is desperately wanting to come to the 'right' conclusion and can't lay out a way of getting there, so handwaves everything away because she doesn't want to answer. I do understand that in politics there are lots of horrible answers you wouldn't want to outright state (e.g. prioritising one worthy use of funds over another) and I kind of class this as one of those, to SC, it's one of those 'let's not admit we are saying an unpopular thing' - i.e. that being female is down to feeling a feminine feeling or whatever.

I'd class this more under 'lying' than 'thick', is my general conclusion.

It's unfortunate, and telling re her character, that the handwaving involves mocking people and deliberately misrepresenting their positions.

I think this is spot on. She's being cynical and is happy to mock anyone who calls her out. When that doesn't work she resorts to wounded victimhood (quote tweet one nasty tweet and complain about the torrents of misogynistic abuse she's received from GC women).

OP posts:
FOJN · 29/05/2022 07:31

She's being cynical and is happy to mock anyone who calls her out. When that doesn't work she resorts to wounded victimhood (quote tweet one nasty tweet and complain about the torrents of misogynistic abuse she's received from GC women).

It's a pattern with Stella, she did exactly the same thing after the MN webchat. It's very transparent and reveals the weakness of TWAW.

NecessaryScene · 29/05/2022 07:39

Same thing when JKR sent that link to the Reduxx men-in-women's prisons article.

She focussed in on "luxury beliefs" and acted all offended, and gave no indication that she even read the headline of the article, let alone its content. She plays dumb, while seeking offense.

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 07:52

Mollyollydolly · 28/05/2022 23:46

And if you think Stella has been risible today Billy Bragg has just compared LGB Alliance to the Nazis and the holocaust .. I shit you not.

twitter.com/billybragg/status/1530601954866565120

Oh but did you see Jonathan Ross' take-down. Perfect.

https://twitter.com/wossy/status/1530667768940744705?s=21&t=KBspfM-QoRHxiGXbbb_sQA

Stella Creasy says women can have penises
Waitwhat23 · 29/05/2022 08:51

Keep Prisons Single Sex have offered to meet with Stella to explain the current policies in UK prisons. No reply from Stella as yet....

Signalbox · 29/05/2022 09:05

Can anyone explain this? If Stella has ruled out woman and female to refer to the sex class which typically has the capacity to gestate then what words does she use to distinguish the biology of the two sexes?

I think the whole point is to get rid of the language that enables women to talk about ourselves in terms of our sex. They don’t want us to be able to discuss this. It’s also why there is a push to demonise people for using “male” or “male bodied” to refer to TW when discussing men competing in female sporting events.

PronounssheRa · 29/05/2022 09:13

I think the whole point is to get rid of the language that enables women to talk about ourselves in terms of our sex

Agreed, but as a law maker Stella must see the problem this creates. If there is no word that can be used just for women, how does Stella propose laws around maternity protections and misogyny etc are worded. Because in her world women with penises, would be included in maternity protections.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/05/2022 09:17

The way Stella conducts herself on line is disgraceful but nothing justifies the misogynistic abuse she has received from some people. If only she could make the connection between her sex and the abuse.

YY, this.

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 10:38

Another reminder of Stella's affiliation with Stonewall

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1313070293234184192?s=21&t=dPRplpLo_7N4TdaLSZ8gQA

Stella Creasy says women can have penises
Signalbox · 29/05/2022 11:06

PronounssheRa · 29/05/2022 09:13

I think the whole point is to get rid of the language that enables women to talk about ourselves in terms of our sex

Agreed, but as a law maker Stella must see the problem this creates. If there is no word that can be used just for women, how does Stella propose laws around maternity protections and misogyny etc are worded. Because in her world women with penises, would be included in maternity protections.

I think it is clear that she does not see the erasure of female people (as a sex class) as a problem. I think she sees it as a solution. Her priority is ensuring that male people have access to female spaces / services / sports etc. She thinks she can achieve this by actively pushing for the meaning of the words woman AND female to be inclusive of men. As far as maternity protections are concerned she would presumably be an advocate for language such as pregnant people or people who are breast / chest feeding for maternity protection in law. This achieves the same thing (even if it is bloody offensive to the majority of women)

yesterdaytheycame · 29/05/2022 11:07

SpindleSheWrote · 28/05/2022 06:22

What is wrong with her? And all the other women of late (see Allison Bailey hearing: passim) saying this nonsensical and dangerous shit, offering to give other women’s rights away because it’s personally lucrative to them? Isn’t there a word for that kind of behaviour?

Just feck off with your luxury beliefs and your chasing after the Stonewall dollar.

Oh and Stella - you’re not as clever as you like to think you are. In fact you're REDACTED REDACTED.

There's a word: politician.

They lie, about everything. Whatever they say, the opposite is likely true.

Waitwhat23 · 29/05/2022 11:50

Stella is now condescending to Julie Bindel about males in the female prison estate and telling her that some women are born with a penis and retain them.

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 12:01

Waitwhat23 · 29/05/2022 11:50

Stella is now condescending to Julie Bindel about males in the female prison estate and telling her that some women are born with a penis and retain them.

She has gone completely and utterly mad.

Irregardless of all the vileness and stupidity she displayed yesterday, even if you'd not known any of that, a newcomer today seeing her belittling Julie Bindel (or trying to) today shows the whole world she is extremely thick.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/05/2022 12:05

If there is no word that can be used just for women, how does Stella propose laws around maternity protections and misogyny etc are worded.

Jean Hatchet, 2018. This is what she was talking about so presciently:

Woman last night : “really it’s a shame you all have to waste your time on the trans issue when there’s so much to do in feminism”

No. There isn’t. All the rest depends on this. If men can say they are women and women have to believe them - they killed feminism. It’s over.

When men take the word “woman” from women and use it for themselves it is the most aggressive collective act of male violence against women and girls you will see in your lifetime.

These men know .... oh yes they know... that if we can’t define “woman” ... we can’t name our oppressors “male”. We can’t fight them. We can’t overthrow them.

Let this pass and it’s over women. The whole game is up.

Fight now. For feminism and for your lives as women.

It's worth reading the full thread and exchanges with commenters.

twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1046022461945524225

ResisterRex · 29/05/2022 12:06

I'm starting to wonder if she's undercover GC. And if she could maybe next tell everyone All About The Cotton Ceiling. Even if not, she's doing a great public service this weekend. The more that read this, the better.

Artichokeleaves · 29/05/2022 12:06

Waitwhat23 · 29/05/2022 11:50

Stella is now condescending to Julie Bindel about males in the female prison estate and telling her that some women are born with a penis and retain them.

Yes Stella.

And some people believe in tooth fairies and angels, and that breaking mirrors is seven years bad luck.

And other people don't, and they don't have to. It's called religious tolerance, love. It's part of the duty of being an MP.

TheLadyDIdGood · 29/05/2022 12:12

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 12:01

She has gone completely and utterly mad.

Irregardless of all the vileness and stupidity she displayed yesterday, even if you'd not known any of that, a newcomer today seeing her belittling Julie Bindel (or trying to) today shows the whole world she is extremely thick.

Absolutely this and extremely dangerous....

NecessaryScene · 29/05/2022 12:12

Rarely do you see ratioing like this on Twitter, but I'll just post the text

Julie Bindel: [at]stellacreasy. I reckon I know more than you do about women in prison, having worked on the issue as a campaigner since setting up [at]justice4women in 1990. You clearly do not realise, what with your virtue signalling and slagging off fine feminists in your quest to be seen as a brave warrior, fighting for the "most marginalised". In the meantime the REAL most marginalised - women in prison - are suffering. So many have told me that ALL those incarcerated are terrified of these 'transwomen' because they have carte blanche, thanks to the likes of you to act with impunity. Have a think. Rather than encouraging a pile-on against women who do ACTUAL work to prevent male violence and support the women suffering it, why don't you just listen to the facts, and face them at the same time? Yours, a feminist who gets things done.

Stella Creasy: Hello julie, why does it have to be an either or? You can throw the word salad of insults at me or we could get prison reform back on agenda together as surely that’s something we can agree on? I said I disagreed with people - I haven’t used terms like virtue signalling etc.

JB: I am defending the most disenfranchised women in society, Stella, not insulting you. You have been clear in your view that male rapists should be prioritised over women's safety, when it comes to 'transwomen' in prison. I would no sooner trust you with reforming our prison system than I would Billy Bragg. I think you know fine well that men ID'ing as women are still men, and that the whole 'some women have penises' is ridiculous. It is far easier for politicians to hold your line than it is brave ones such as [at]RosieDuffield1

SC: It seems there needs to be some honesty here from you and those who don’t consider trans women to be women that you wish to continue to call them men. Because if not the case then there is a very small group of women who were born with a penis and in some cases retain it.

Jane Clare Jones: You know Stella, there are many of us who wanted to be able to resolve this situation while retaining polite social conventions with respect to addressing trans women. As this conflict has progressed, more and more women have become convinced that under the current political circumstances that's not possible, because women's concern to be polite has been so massively leveraged against them to try and destroy our existence as a sex based political class, and the rights afforded to us on that basis.

You couldn't have done more to prove them right.

[Jane Clare Jones then continues as a QT of Creasy's "small group of women retaining a penis" tweet.]

We have been completely clear that we wish to continue to be able to describe the reality of human sex. Because female people are oppressed on the basis of sex. And female people need sex based spaces and resources.

It is extremely disingenuous to just frame that as 'you wish to continue to call them men' as if all we are motivated by is a desire to be mean and spiteful for no reason.

As you suggest Stella, if we do not insist on continuing to name the reality of sex, then people like you are going to claim that the class of female people now contains male people, that some male people were somehow born female people, and on that basis, are going to further insist that all of female people's spaces and resources become, de facto, mixed sex.

This is about the political erasure of sex. The political erasure of the axis of our oppression. The redefinition of our class in law from a sex based to a gender identity based definition. And the effort to reorganise all social provision previously allocated on the basis of sex.

It is not even remotely reasonable to ask women to accept that.

A demand for that kind of political abnegation does not even remotely fall under the remit of 'being kind.'

Indeed, it is extremely unkind to try and manipulate, intimidate and gaslight women into this kind of political abnegation.

We will not consent to the political erasure of female people as a class, and to the political erasure of the rights and resources afforded to us on that basis.

No matter how many times you imply that we are terrible awful meanies...

Justme56 · 29/05/2022 12:18

I see Anneliese Dodds isn’t agreeing with Stella (Sophyridgesky). Sees a difference between gender and sex! Do you think someone had a quiet word at Labour HQ!

PrelateChuckles · 29/05/2022 12:22

Stella using the phrase 'throw the word salad at insults at me' has infuriated me. Everything Julie has said in that tweet was clear. Unlike Stella's position on what a woman is or isn't. "Word salad" means obfuscating and hiding your actual "logic" behind jargon and tangents. Not just 'saying a sentence with lots of words in'.

God, she is absolutely insufferable. I'm convinced from that she's deliberately misleading and misrepresenting now.

PrelateChuckles · 29/05/2022 12:24

^ word salad OF insults at me.... typo, not me mispresenting SC!

PrelateChuckles · 29/05/2022 12:28

And yeah, it's so transparent.
"Women are female people and some female people with a penis"
"Female includes people with a penis"
"female and male are not separate, we don't have words for them"
"Women includes male people"

"WHAT?!?!??! YOU WANT TO CALL SOME WOMEN 'MEN'!??!?! How can you use language like this, it's unthinkable??!"

ResisterRex · 29/05/2022 12:29

Creasy's own words on the two-year requirement pre-GRC application:

"That brings up all sorts of questions about what is a woman in terms of gender – what does it mean to live as a woman? I wear flat shoes, I’ve got terrible bunions, is someone going to tell me that living as a woman means you have to wear high heels for two years?""

Totally clear!! 🤪