What scares you most about state of trans ideology

[PaddleBoardingMomma]

Musing over a few things this evening with a friend, talking about not only sanitary product companies but also make up brands jumping on the band wagon, new gender neutral toilets at work, the debacle of men being allowed in womens changing rooms, children being allowed hormone blockers and so on.

But out of everything, the thing that really frightens me most is how on earth im supposed to raise my daughters in amongst all this. We have always been respectful of peoples choice and differences, we try to instil this in the girls. However it's getting harder to keep the balance and explain things without having to get into why they as girls are on the back foot, pushed out of things and why they need to understand the dynamics and implications. I suppose im resentful that it's gotten to this point?

Anyway, what is it about the current climate that really gets to you the most?

I agree with pp I tend towards anger and feeling steadfast against it rather than scared

I see posters minimising on here, even deriding those who care and I find it very weird and kind of gross

I really appreciate this thread too

Realising how close misogyny, gynephobia and the desire to silence women were to the surface of the public psyche and just how easily women's rights were stripped back and we were put, metaphorically, back in the scold's bridle. What most appals me is how many women have fallen for this and how they simply repeat 'my pronouns are' 'trans people are the most marginalised...' as if on autopilot and even when they suffer the most horrendous abuse and marginalisation in their own lives - or are witness to other women suffering this.

It's like a horrendous dystopian novel.

It baffles and scares me how an obscure psychiatric condition has been weaponised to upend social norms of women's privacy and dignity, healthcare ethics, kids' education about the world, sport categories, everyday language about our bodies, etc. And this has happened right across the Western world in only a few years.

I find the assault on women and girls boundaries unnerving. It is fundamentally saying that keeping yourself safe in a world that is extremely hostile to girls and women makes you a bigot. I don’t want DD to grow up thinking she needs to defer to mens feelings at the expense of her own safety, dignity and comfort. Yet the current state of play means that she would be shamed and shunned for it.

The use of gender extremism to erode women's rights. For me, the Next Big Thing is @iamsarah's - Sussex Rape Crisis / Survivors Network case.

Sussex (funded by local govt money) supposedly offer separate groups for women, lgbt, and men. Excellent service you'd think. But guess what - all these groups are "inclusive" and based non gender not sex. The women's group includes transwomen and there is no actual women-only rape survivor's support group in Sussex. Single-sex rape crisis and domestic violence support were promised when the Equalities Act was introduced and gender reassignment was included as a protected characteristic. But there's no requirement to provide separate services for women.

We already lost on prisons - a judge admitted that allowing transwomen into women's prisons was a risk to women, but insisted that prisons could manage that risk even though they manifestly haven't so far.

So this one needs to be fought and won. It's not only a "sunlight" matter, shedding light in court on what's been going on, it's a legal rights of all women matter. It's on the same scale as abortion rights.

The effect on/capture of children and young people. I find it frustrating and deeply upsetting that I can't talk to my YA kids about this subject without argument..DD was GC until she went to uni. I'm upset for children of close friends going down a path at an early age that will ruin them physically and mentally. I'm just gobsmacked by the safeguarding issues rearing their heads in plain sight but being shoved under the carpet in the name of #bekind and #lovewins.

As a person of faith I am daily bewildered by this cult that doesn't allow dissenters or any kind of challenge at all. I would never dream of telling unbelievers they must make statements of my faith, I would never dream of throwing abuse at them for not believing. It's a dystopian nightmare and I want out.

The nonces using it as a trojan horse.

And young women getting double mastectomies.

The thing that worries me the most is the sheer Orwellian nature of the TWAW mantra. Say something totally illogical, repeat it like a mantra, buy into social justice charities and academia, bully dissidents, do every damned thing but offer a rational explanation of the ideology. All of this is achieved by combining corporate money and media manipulation with the energy of a few activists and dressing it up as a progressive ethos that will surely triumph - TRSOH.

I hate to think what this approach will lead to next, although I see a few posters have already voices those concerns

What scares me the most is just how often, when you scratch a little deeper, there's a prolific sex offender, in a position of power, who is driving the change in their location of influence.

Also, how many teachers have been captured. I made a mild complaint to my child's school about the use of the word "cis" in lessons and trans ideology being taught as fact. Now teachers my child previously got along great with ignore her and do not smile or show friendliness anymore. These are teachers, excluding a child because the child's mother went against trans ideology teaching.

This is an amazing post @LemonSwan, yes this is exactly how bad things happen - most people either go along with them before they balloon into being really bad, or are scared to speak up.

That's not to say some humans are 'sheep' or whatever - we've evolved over millennia to follow the herd as that's literally how we have survived. People willing to go against the prevailing orthodoxy are rare, are often disagreeable in other ways, and often suffer social stigma.

That women, unless they are women with penises are inferior, and need to accept they have less rights. That our children believe this, and if they don't, they are bullied and ostracised. That they are not permitted to be uncomfortable, only the penis owner is, and then it is every woman's job to make them feel included at all cost

Wow, the responses are absolutely fantastic. So well written, thoughtful, factual and opening up a world of information for those of us who are perhaps on the periphery of the forum, who know they feel uncomfortable but can't articulate why, who have been looking for information to help them learn.

Thank you so so much, each and every one of you for taking the time to write out these replies, the more we share and talk the more we understand why this situation is dangerous, maddening and needs to be spoken about.

❤️

I'm genuinely so sorry, sending you so much love. 💐

What scares me most is the number of people who think the decimation of women's rights is okay. Especially the women who think that.

Add to this, those who don't even realise that their hard fought for rights are being decimated.

I think it's the capture of all the institutions and how far into law / government / police / NHS / universities / schools this shit has gone. Watching the Bailey case this week and listening to a judge go on about black trans women being the most oppressed and the privilege of AB. Another barrister comparing lesbian sexual boundaries to apartheid. Seeing reports of a child being chased out of school for doubting the trans narrative and nobody defending them. Hearing from friends with 11 year old children that this nonsense is rife in schools and teachers don't know how to handle it through fear of losing their jobs.

People appear to be losing their minds left right and centre. It's like invasion of the body snatchers. Even people who I think of as down to earth rational types don't seem to be able to think straight on this issue. I'm lucky that my husband and I are in the same place on this so at least we can discuss the madness of it all at home.

Yes, there's the Orwellian change of language by people who really do understand how language changes perception. I used to think "cis" was just a bit irritating, a word that women didn't invent and women don't wear with pride. A bit rude, a bit ideologically loaded, but mostly harmless. Not a word I'd use myself but I shrugged my shoulders when DH decided to call himself a "cis man" at some inclusive event or other at work.

But then I learned about Sussex Rape Crisis/Survivor's Network case. And I thought, well that's pretty clear cut, a straightforward whoopsie that by trying to be inclusive they've passed over women's need for a single-sex women''s group. And the average funder is easily going to understand what's missing. OK, thy might not agree it's a failure (maybe women really don't get distressed or put off by transwomen in the group) or maybe the funders don't agree it's discriminating (what @iamsarah 's case is about), but at least they'll easily understand the point because most people do have an everyday understanding about what "women only" means.

But then suppose we try to explain the same thing in cis-talk. Funders are going to say "We already pay for a nice inclusive women-only group, plus separate groups for men and one for assorted minorities. Who are this extra (weird, political) minority called "cis-women" who can't join all the ordinary women? Why do they expect a group of their own as well? What makes them so special?"

And there go women's rights, vanished in a puff of terminology. So let's not do "cis women" talk any more. It's really not in women's best interests.

This story from Norway is frightening:

reduxx.info/norwegian-feminist-facing-up-to-three-year-prison-sentence-over-tweets/

"A Norwegian feminist could be facing up to three years in prison for allegedly “hateful” tweets directed at a male who claims to be a lesbian woman.
Christina Ellingsen, a representative of feminist organization Women’s Declaration Internationall_ (WDI) is being investigated under hate crime charges for tweets she made between February 2021 and January 2022.
The tweets in question were replies directed at Christine Marie Jentoftt_, a representative of trans activist group Foreningen FRI. Jentoft is a male who identifies as a lesbian woman.
Ellingsen’s charges are centered around her questioning why FRI promoted the belief that men could be lesbians. While police are still investigating, if she is found guilty, Ellingsen could face a prison sentence of up to three years.
Norway introduced “gender identity” into the hate crime paragraphs in January 2021. At the time, WDI Norway (formerly WHRC Norway) warned that the introduction of the concept into law would n_ for stating biological facts."

Also:

"Ellingsen was recently accused by Amnesty International Norway of harassing Jentoft after telling him on national television that he was male.
“You are a man. You cannot be a mother,” Ellingsen had said, “To normalize the idea that men can be mothers is a defined form of discrimination against women.”"
AMNESTY. Again. This is where we are headed if we don't do what we can to help stop it.

Stonewall. I used to gasp in awe at the work they did, the rights they defended. And somehow they’ve turned into something I simply cannot recognise. My beloved barrister, a strident feminist lesbian has been “cancelled” - and what they as an organisation are setting out to do is abhorrent. I feel so so so let down.

I just realised in my last post I was dismissive about DH's event at work. It was an LGBTQ event which matters for human rights and is still risk-taking at work, and DH thought about his use of language, which I respect even if I disagree with the outcome. I did not mean to dismiss it, I meant to emphasise that I had gone from trivialising my general feeling of discomfort to really seeing the likely effect.

The Totalitarianism

Absolutely this.

There used to be, maybe there still is, a wall at the Imperial War Museum showing the steady creep creep creep of Nazi laws against the Jews. No one (or few) would have stood by happily in 1933 and said, yep, gas chambers for my neighbours, count me in. But by 1945, very few were saying, count me out.

The mentality is the same, the cowardice and stupidity of the masses, keep my head down, maybe they won't come for me. As a society we haven't learned a bloody thing.

The mentality is the same, the cowardice and stupidity of the masses, keep my head down, maybe they won't come for me. As a society we haven't learned a bloody thing.

Solzhenitsyn and Havel would agree with you.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4382551-Live-not-by-lies-Solzhenitsyn-no-tambourines-involved?

Not read the whole thread, for me:
The number of lives destroyed by rushing to validate people who are struggling with identity. The "trans" people and their family and friends.
The risk to women from loss of safe spaces and loss of voice
The knock on damage on the tiny tiny tiny number of people who have sever dysphoria and can only leave life with drastic hormone and lifestyle changes.
Is short, scared for women and very sad for trans people.

I think it's hard to distinguish between the massive harm being done to children and young people, the fascistic use of forced language / lying, the science denial, and the deliberate destruction of women's rights.

One might argue that the scariest thing about the whole movement is the way it encompasses so many different things that it is impossible to get across the full horror to someone who doesn't understand unless they are reasonably intelligent and have hours spare to listen and ask questions!